CANCELED: Forging Changes

forge
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#251

I think its a symptom of todays gamers being a little to much spoonfed and handheld through games. Ive had one major hook accept this game and thats dark souls. Which is kinda an polar reaction to the mainstream handhelding thats been going on. But it got polluted by maknstream gamers and their opinions. I played Mainly 1 and 2 ofc number 3 too but by then the game got destroyed by casuals and yeh the game died, almost noone online activity now, they played it safe one too many times with their changes.

People dont get how dull games become if their dumbed down, they dont realise it untill its too late…


#252

Heard about this game, it seemed like a bueatifull game at its peak. Really wish something like this could come out m.


#253

Yup, the other ingredients need to be buffed to provide similar advantages and reward thinking about what you need to use, not making it so that you know no matter what you have to accept a mid tier tool at end game or be punished for wanting the high end stuff. Forging should be end game and restricted to players who can get there.

If they want earlier access for players to forging then the inexperienced forgers results should be quirky and defective, not the master forgers. And to get this experience difference you could do with needing more skill points for more forging skills that reduce chances of landing a slider into defects and things like that. Like a passive fate paste as a skill that needs 20 skillpoints or something. Call it forgers luck, have it require having specced fully into the other forge tied stats too, like how rage 1 and 2 can only be unlocked by getting base rage


#254

There is nothing “dumbed down” by this. RNG is for drops. There should never be RNG in crafting. Especially when crafting iyems that last no more than an hour.

Or, if there is, it should be based on skill level. Someone with “max” crafting skill should NEVER encounter RNG. Ever.


#255

Aye. It has one of my favorite systems when it comes to gear. There is things called Adaptive gear, which allows you to craft or buy mods for the gear and insert the stats you want in the item. So if you go full crafter, you can gear up your alts if you’d like using rare mods of their best stats to make leveling them easier.

Would love to see that being a forge thing. Have it so you have to gain a lot of mats for these “insertable mods” and can make them of whatever stat you want.


#256

For me at least, the opposite of boring is not fun, it’s engaging. Predictable crafting results dont make crafting deco wood fun for me, building something that I find appealing with the products engages me. Similarly, getting a better tool is boring in and of itself for me, whereas the process and uncertainty with forging is engaging. I understand that many people don’t do well with anything unpredictable in life; but for me it is the predictable that is boring and the unpredictable that keeps me coming back.

If I forge something that doesnt live up to my aims, I am unhappy. it wasn’t a fun experience. when I get something that is better than I expected, I’m happy and I have fun. both outcomes however made me part of the process and engaged me. I wasn’t grinding, I was forging.


#257

that was a good system for KOTOR. that’s kinda what augments are like though? Maybe extend them to include tool augments? I mean I wasn’t aware bomb augments were going to be a thing, maybe they’re already working on something like that…


#258

Sadly this is one subject I disagree on. I highly dislike gambling. And that’s what forging is right now :frowning:


#259

Blizzard, at GDC on fixing an item based game (D3 ROS):

“Know your Fears” (paraphrasing):

Minute 49:

The other fear we had was the fear of being to generous. People like loot based games because they keep coming back. We had to learn that it was better to have people get what they needed and enjoy the game than to feel like we were too stingy and leave the game feeling frustrated. They will spend 3 hours unable to get what they are looking for and say “this game just wasted my time”. The prior will come back when you have an expansion or a DLC drop or what have you…

Minute 50:

Randomness is not replay-ability. We sacrificed so much at the altar of RNG that we lost sight of fun… Be subtle with it… Randomness was pushing people away.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a Blizzard Game, but from a design point of view, they at least have some interesting insight.

Check it out on Youtube. That guys speech was pretty spot on for what I’ve been feeling about the recent updates here.


#260

Then why not go full RNG? Remove all requirements, and make it act like Enchanting in Minecraft. You throw an item at it, and the Item gets a Buffs and Debuffs at complete random.

It costs nothing but the item your ‘Forging’ but it truely is 100% random. You could get a god tier perfect hammer, or a piece of junk the other 99.9% of the time.


Edit:
Heck, they can even give it a Slot Machine sound effect and a ‘KACHING!’ sound when it pops out your junk item.


#261

And they are selling so I guess the prices are right then. Aridhol can’t even keep forged hammers in stock anymore. I’m talking about his t6 one-shot hammers he sells for 30-35K. They are out of stock seemingly instantly.


#262

Fair enough then. The market will decide.


#263

yea and what was the solution to that hammer “Problem”? right alienate the bombs… you always need to see both parts of an medallion


#264

Studies have been done that the louder and more shiny the reward message, the more likely someone is to become addicted to it and keep playing just to be able to smash the reward button again.


#265

This is the same issue we had at Ultima Shop before being forced to retire our forging. People really want the forged tools, and the supply is vastly outshadowed by the demand. Never enough for everyone.


#266

if we were to make a habit of taking everything to an extreme, the world would be an extremely extreme place wouldn’t it. I think the term to keep in mind is balance, and i feel that this is what the developers are trying to achieve. With balance comes changes, because it needs to be done incrementally until it works just right.

Player population and the average level of players also has a large effect on how and when balance issues become apparent, so things that were an issue at launch (fibrous leaf shortage, OP bomb mining etc.) have now given way to newer problems as more players are progressing and exploring different parts of the game en masse.

I feel that a suggestion of “all or nothing” may be an overly simplified and narrow reaction to have about most things, as either end of a spectrum is a lonely place. The ideal is sometimes referred to as “the golden mean” because it manages to strike a balance between two (usually) opposing extremes.

I am aware that this time your response may be regarding my above post, in which case I thank you for your input. I think however that over-reacting on most topics, here going either full RNG or none at all would change the original idea behind forging to a point well outside of it’s intended application. There is often more to life than a binary choice, it’s indeed very complicated.

@FlashKiller69 Oh believe me I don’t think they got it right with bomb mining. When they removed xp and block drops from bomb mining, I felt that it was in a fair place. You couldnt gain multiple levels from simply spamming a single bag of bombs on a starter world or flash gather a ton of rock (all of which are indeed possible now with flawlessly forged gem tools). This is definitely part of why I would be interested in having some time with the proposed changes on the testing server, because i agree that the current state of affairs have worked to a point where people are now effectively bomb mining (the way it was when many people complained it was OP) only with hammers. It must be said that the current situation has a much higher entry price regarding materials, skill points and accessibility; but resources are indeed infinite in this universe. Simply moving to a more expensive system with similar results does not make it less overpowered.

Consider bomb mining in the state i mentioned above - where xp and resources were lost in return for fast gathering. If forging better and better tools meant that there were more and more defects and/or quirks to contend with, it might be closer to a comparable system. As it stands now however, we might never find out which i am sad about.


#267

I think they should just listen to me on everything. I’m amazing and godlike on my ideas :wink:

Amusingly egotistical comments aside, they definitely need to get in touch with their playerbase INGAME instead of deciding what is best for us on their own. It’s been made obvious that they don’t know what is the best action to take


#268

hard to tell but i guess any chancges regarding a topic like the forge could up set many people…

because the forge is not like i gathererd all ressources needed and get now a b or c its random and luck based even though you can move it in certain direction its still a kind of RNG witch no one can demand.

adding more RNG and removing the only human and the only slight light shine of consistens in the RNG forging doesnt make it better or balanced like many people think off.

Real Balancing need many compromisses, Time and less of an RNG or no RNG at all in case of forging.


#269

They could always give us a compromise and please everyone. Make RNG mats really easily made, and add in materials that take away the RNG for a vastly inflated material cost. So those who want to gamble can and make more money off their successful gambles, while people who just want the items can just outright make them.


#270

this i feel is worth a closer look yup.

refer also above - possibly a place for expensive augments? with the limitation that you cant put augments on forged gear?