I think the take away from all of this is that even the slightest wiff of pay2win is enough to bring on an absolute ■■■■ storm in this community. We know this. The devs know this. Nobody wants a fiasco.
The devs may know it, but they’re not being clear on it. The issue I see is that there is a lack of connection between the devs and the community; I had the impression that it was not so. It has been a bumpy week, though, so I’d give them a little breathing room.
Just stick around a bit and you will see
James already posted in here earlier saying that he has been busy as anything, and that he’s in the process of writing an explanation. The best thing right now is to be patient while he gets that set.
After reading all the post in the thread with eagerness, I have to say need to wait on James, he listens, and also my 2 cents from playing games since pong, atari, and intelivision.
Loot Crates are the WORST thing I ever seen come into any game. They start off not too bad, but THEN the famous “your not a premium member and cannot access the premium side of the loot from this crate”…
Also I quit playing RoboCraft, a game I backed, became a Moderator, spent hundreds of dollars on, because they adopted loot crates. It became a thing that Items only came in loot crates and the contents are random, and you had to aquire the crates and pray you got what you wanted in them.
Vegas has better odds of winning then those damn crates. It wasn’t pay to win because anyone could earn crates, but the odds of ever getting anything was like 10,000 to 1. The odds were so bad they used that to force people to buy more crates with the false promise it upped the odds.
Guess what. They are now after 1.5 years of crates listening to the players and doing away with the crates. They made far more money selling pretty things, then forcing people to buy things they needed.
If any micro transactions sell things that take players away from our shops that give them any kind of bonuses our foods or hand made products give, the game will crash and burn. The MOMENT a game sells items that are better than what the crafters can make the game dies. You can google that. There will be some small amount of rich kids spending daddy’s credit cards to keep it going for a while. But that’s
short lived and a cancer society.
Color package is cool, usually comes with a 5 dollar a month sub along with a little more inventory.
As far as plots bonus to founders. I mean COME ON. We are frikin backers. We sacrifice thousands of hours helping the dev’s create, criticize, bug find, build and wear ourselves out before it’s even live, just to LOSE it all to go live. I’m sorry, no one is taking my damn plot bonus’s away. That’s not game breaking we deserve something.
One last thing. If we don’t agree with, we can respectfully say that without criticizing , belittling, flat out disrespecting and even to the point of TAUNTING Karko. That is not how to have a productive debate or conversation.
Not Jerry Springer show. I found some of it very distasteful.
Blockquote One last thing. If we don’t agree with, we can respectfully say that without criticizing , belittling, flat out disrespecting and even to the point of TAUNTING Karko. That is not how to have a productive debate or conversation.
Well said @Zina in each of your comments. I agree completely with each. Loot chests have driven me away from any game they appeared. Things sold in a developer run store should be totally cosmetic and not replace any craftable items or replace player activity as a shortcut. If people want to play the game then play. If start selling shortcuts they might as well just get rid of the ability for players to sell anything and get rid of levels. Just let everyone start with full skills and have planets designed so that people can gather or build anything they feel like without ever having any danger and provide different planets for people that like hunting as well as others with PvP so that everyone is happy (except people that actually like to earn advancement instead of starting as a top level player and we will leave then). As for backers, people back the game at the level they choose based on the offer made by the company and the payment is the acceptance. That is a contract. Changing the terms to take away benefits or to hand them out to everyone would be a material breach of that contract.
People’s comments about @Karko have often been totally uncalled for and disrespectful. Karko has been in here for years. The most disrespectful people seem to all be very new compared to him and did not invest anywhere near the money that Karko has to help this game be great. The attitude these people show with Karko and some others is the biggest turnoff there is so far with this game. It’s a game folks. The way politics is played in real life nowadays has destroyed civility regarding politics and is spreading everywhere as people have no respect for anyone anymore. It’s a sad state of affairs and if it continues here then some of us will be gone forever. Whatever happened to the good community here? Obviously it is gone and probably was just a facade to begin with.
This game isn’t marketed yet. If you think this is bad, wait until the general population of people who aren’t even aware that this game even exists gets their hands on it and starts playing. The level of disrespect, toxicity, and general nastiness will go up naturally as the more people start playing the game. You’ll meet more people who disagree with you in less than stellar and pleasant ways. There will even be people who just straight up are jerks. Welcome to multiplayer games.
That’s why you can now put someone on mute in game and on Discord if they’re there. I am surprised the forums don’t have that functionality.
Also, it’s very irrelevant how much money someone dropped on a game when they’re making assumptions on something based off incomplete information. I think it’s reasonable for people to react the way they did regarding the topic at hand. This thread is extremely tame compared to all the threads on this topic between official game forums and sub-reddit threads that I’ve seen over the 1.5 decades of playing games online that I can vaguely recall even half of…
And less attempt at guilt tripping please. It doesn’t help. That is basically the attitude of everyone needing to hold hands, sing a song around a campfire, and be friends with each other for the sake of being friends. It’s unrealistic. If Karko has a problem with what people have said about him, then there is a report function there for each post that he can use. That goes for anyone else in this community.
Seriously wish you guys would get off of @Karko 's back, too. He’s responding to what he sees as a tremendous threat to the game and this community. I commend him for sharing his concerns. Concerns that I also share. Before anybody else says he should have waited to see what the devs say, I remind you that they are going to tell us about it because Karko and others brought it to light. Whether or not his reaction is extreme is up to individuals interpretation, but his message is crystal clear. P2W will drive off many supporters and players. For you fresher faces here, Karko first backed this game nearly 5 years ago with the first of us- he wants the game to be successful as much as you or I.
I advocate for feedback as often as possible, both positive and negative. This is strong feedback.
absolutely agree: get off @Karko 's back
his concerns and doubts are the one we all have, and rising it in this manner is giving an edgy cut to the subject.
let’s discuss the subject as it is important, not the person who raised it
‘Changing the terms to take away benefits or to hand them out to everyone would be a material breach of that contract.’
Where? Is this something you are assuming, or something that was said, or written.
Selling plot bonuses after release, it’ll be a debated subject I am sure. As founders will want their advantage. Players after release will want a level playing field. As it is so critical a game mechanic it’ll be in these forums forever. - I certainly intend to upgrade very soon :D, I think not allowing people to get the same amount of plots as me for example will be incredibly unfair post release.
But they can just gain xp for more? Not if I am getting +50%.
I agree. It’s something I’ve discussed with James directly. I dont see a problem with raising plot gain percentages at a rate equivalent to the existing backer tiers post release. That’s only fair. While plots are certainly needed by huge project builders, they are not a finite resource, and simply having them does not “win” anything- you still have to build things with your own resources and skills to make them valuable. A dedicated baseline player like @the-moebius for example can still compete with a master tier player like myself. Heck, moebs probably has way more plots than I do even now!
Gaining plots at a boosted rate is still p2w though… in just in a highly removed way.
I want to know what about plots at private worlds.
Well, considering that you will probably have all the permissions on a private world, if it belongs to you, it stands to reason that you would probably be able to use the console to give yourself unlimited plots
Or any item in the game and at whatever quantity you want.
True that and of course, all the skills etc, etc.
Yeah, after coming back and playing for a while. I realized that the argument “plots = power” is true. Being able to reserve and farm lots of space, and or throw down more foot fall farming beacons is undoubtedly an advantage over other players. It just wasn’t obvious until there was a real economy and fights over prestige. Which is why I advocate dropping the perk for backers. Which brings me to something else I wanted to point out to everyone…
This game is extremely PVP, there is more to player versus player than just me pulling out my knife and saying “I will cut you”.
First, the economy in this game is very competitive it reminds me of playing the market in EVE, which I find very fun. The influence of having more plots either through micro or backer is there. I personally don’t want people be able to dismiss my work because of it.
Second, @Jeffrotheswell pointed this out first. Going further, that prestige is most definitely a form of PVP. We already see fights over control of a city, for fun or nefarious reasons. I’m looking at you @Freezyloon. There are also battles for the capital that people are taking pretty seriously. I’m looking at you @Simoyd and @Gorillastomp. Couple that with anything that can be bought with real world money to help (ie plots) and you have achieved a p2w scenario. The capital/mayor fights will only intensify when taxation is implemented. Could you imagine being the viceroy of Solum at the moment? 10% of all commerce on that planet. That’s a pretty big deal, and definitely worth fighting for.
Third, there is a more subtle area of PVP in the current game that has not been mentioned. Who has the best build is alive and stronger than ever. This is the oldest form of competition dating back to the very beginning. Where all there was to do was build. I got back and the bar had been raised significantly. While there have never been official mechanics for this because it is extremely complex to assign metrics to. The people playing this part of the game most definitely know its going on, and know who is winning and are working to constantly top each other. I’m looking at you @Liveey and @the-moebius.
And for those of you who said loot crates are something you do not like. You should take a look at this thread.
Mystery boxes could be cool. But I’ve simply not seen a honest system yet. Huge Stakes and High odds, are inventions to dump thousands of dollars into. Its just turning the ability to buy something out right into a chance game that forces you to keep buying them in hopes of someday getting what you want.
I will never, ever ,ever purchase into that type of system. I would however dump hundreds into things I actually see and can make a choice on.
@Karko competition is what attracts us to games. It’s also a reson why males play more than females.
I personally like to compete with others, be better and have better building. But I wouldn’t say it has negative impact on others. I’d never make harm to other players around me. If someone was to ask me for some support, I would help him. And I think most of the community would help others. Competing with others is fun, but it’s not really a PvP mechanic.
When it comes to ‘winning’ ekhm, @the-moebius. I think it no longer matters if you’re rich or not. If you have rank #1 or not. I’m sure he doesn’t need all that gold he earns from footfall and he expands his area of portals only for community and self ego. Is that harmful? I’d rather say it’s helpful for others. He spends his own plots on public projects.
I wouldn’t look at competing with others as something bad. It’s actually a lot of fun. Only sometimes people pay too much attention to it.