Just wanted to highlight this part as this sentiment resonates with me. I really despise game developers that try to appease to players by dumbing down mechanics to the point that it becomes a watered down version of the original vision of the game. Thanks for trying to maintain a sense of complexity without making the game complicated. Complicatedness vs complexity is always a tough challenge in game design today.
Question:
Are these quirks completely random or is there a way for us to target some of these quirks?
@rossstephens
Would you be willing to share some rationale as to how you, as a team, decide on these initial quirks? I’m curious as to how a small development team can decide rather quickly how you choose these quirks.
If it was remove damgeloss entirely (not what you were suggesting just kinda commenting lol) then you would only need like damage 3 to one shot everything and getting level 5 on that is insanely easy so obviously that would be broken. I think with 3x3 being so MANDATORY as is, level 5o being a huge negative is kinda a good thing as it limits players to not be so… gungho on their forging
Shame draining boon will be nerfed like they planned a few weeks ago.
The less debuff count weakens its combo with the vigour catalyst. And with the added quirk points its like a double nerf. Guess i wont be using that combo again.
Maybe diminishing returns or hard cap on vigour points returned would have been better.
Cap removal on effectiveness is a good change.
Not sure about the rest, gotta see those live i guess.
The problem here is it is difficult to get Damage 8 and AOE 4 without the vigor process…I mean you could, and you will with luck…but I tried making hammers on the testing server a few different ways and I couldn’t do it. Best I got was 7 damage and 4 AOE
I can currently en a 60 turn forge with around 1000 stability remaining and near endless vigour, the changes to draining compound is very welcome. Now we can actually play around with so many more combinations!
Just a reminder, these changes are for testing, they aren’t lined up for release yet so please those who can (sorry ps4’gers) get a bit of time on testing to advise any further tweaks
To that I am going to respond with what I had already said about the situation.
Otherwise the changes look fine. I will need to go on to the test server to see how much harder it is to make a AoE hammer that meets the min requirements of
Lv4 AoE
Lv8 Damage
Lv5 Dura
Depending on how hard it is to do that. will determine just how bad the Draining boon compound nerf is. I am hoping that with the 2 extra slots, maybe another good way of forging will open up. but…
Dosen’t sound good, Hopefully that is just because people have not figured it out yet.
I think from the OP that is exactly the intent; that full power tools will be rare and special rather than almost certain.
I know it’s not perfect not having a 1shot 3x3 to hand all the time for everyone, but really I run a medium resourced forging process on live and often end with 3x3 and not DD8+ and it’s fine. Yeah my tools don’t last as long but I still make back plenty enough gems per tool to replace it and more, which seems fair enough.
Wanting to chew up top-tier worlds at 3x3 all the time feels a bit greedy. I’m swimming in gems I need since getting to 3x3 with DD. This system feels like more people will be getting a reasonable 3x3 for T5 worlds sooner, so they can get in the game of getting more back per hammer than they put in. Sounds good to me, there were a lot of frustrated posts about that a few weeks ago before people trailed off to exciting new games.
Even with the old system, with enough rotten RNG, i was still able to make absolute fails at times.
So i don’t think a hard nerf is required because it was never almost certain for me
and that was after I was willing to settle at least trying to get past my failure requirement.
For me personally. on a hammer I aim to get Lv4 AoE, Lv8 Damage, and Lv5 Dura or higher.
but there are times where there is enough bad RNG involving the boon removal solvent, where I was just willing to try to settle for two boons, Lv4 AoE and Lv8 damage. but even with the reduced expectations, as seen in the screenshot above, i can fail to even get that at times. its uncommon, but common enough to make forging not so fun at times.
I feel there is nothing
About RNG that is 100% out of your control, ruining an item when it gives you a bad “roll” 4+ times in a row.
Thats a little more on the side of frustrating then it is “Thrilling”
This has nothing to do with Draining Boon Compound. It has everything to do with the fact that you can get over max Vigour or Stability. The wrong things are being targeted here.
Also that method is horrible. I attempted it and it made me hate myself from how many resources it wasted, and how boring it is. Max-level tools aren’t worth that process. Didn’t even need a nerf. It’s a nerf in itself.
Oh tell me about it, I’ve got piles of + hammers and Low Blow rubbish hanging around. A lot of people could pull it off near reliably.
Don’t forget you can deconstruct now and try again, another shot if it goes awry. Again better than before. I would imagine those determined folk with sufficient resources will still have plenty enough good hammers to meet their needs.
Most people get level 5 without wanting to. If you had NO damage penalty, you would destroy any life of the game as that would make forging literally just be get durability, AoE 5 and swing speed. Anything else would be a poor decision for a hammer and that alone would destroy what little market there currently is in this game. I forge max damage, durability 3x3s all the time and with your decision, I could easily make GEM TOOLS that destroy level 8 planets with lightning speed and that would then make the next tier tools absolute trash. With there being a play it safely with a bad level 5 it forces forgers to not make rash decisions. Though I could agree that it definitely needs to change from being THAT bad to something that is good but not broken good.
Maybe cross max damage could be a viable change but 3x3 max damage is something only the entitled want
Deconstruction was always something that can be done, But the problem is, it takes up a valuable deck slot, and even with the new changes where it gives you the hammer back, that matters not to me, since gems is not the limiting factor here. The limiting factor is hopper cores and a few of the other uncommon materials, more importantly, the limiting factor is how many failures can I handle in a row before I just want to go do something else for a day or so.
So while this change is nice for newer players who are not sitting on top of piles and piles of gems. it doesn’t do much for me personally, and thats fine.
I know the feeling on Hopper Cores (Wildstock Trophies for me too for some reason). I tend to go with a lower demand process & be happy with less perfect results but it took some time to swallow.
Yeah I think that’s part of the aim, to make decent forged stuff more accessible. But it’s not all of it and all feedback is good, maybe there will be more balance after testing if enough people can only produce good tools infrequently.
Quick suggestion - its harder to get those 3x3 +dura +dmg hammers right? Also, gems arent that rare anymore (and if gem tool prices dont drop by the same 50-80% soon i expect a few gem item mongers to see significantly fewer sales…). So basically we now have to consider the following trade-offs (on testing at least):
AoE 4 is pretty much essential for a “good to great” hammer.
Dmg. If you cant get straight to 1shot territory, then anything above 50% dmg is kinda wasted. Maybe consider swapping dmg for action speed boon, and rather take a strength brew instead of a speed one?
Dura. We get more gems, so the hammer should be a smaller part of the equation in final price. Is it worth using 2 10k c hammers instead of wanting that 25k 1shotter?
Not just diamond. Use faster gems, lower damage but higher dura. Aim your forge points towards damage.
Use crit hammers and substitute your persisting pie with crit loaves/pies.
There can be many ways to get around to similar payoff/cost ways of mining other than the 1hit 9 kill current strategy - this by no means kills any aspect of the game (actually makes tool type, brew and food choices relevant this way)