Forging Balance Changes on Testing

forge
testing
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f4f09d4d7d0> #<Tag:0x00007f4f09d4d668>

#61

Quick suggestion - its harder to get those 3x3 +dura +dmg hammers right? Also, gems arent that rare anymore (and if gem tool prices dont drop by the same 50-80% soon i expect a few gem item mongers to see significantly fewer sales…). So basically we now have to consider the following trade-offs (on testing at least):

  1. AoE 4 is pretty much essential for a “good to great” hammer.
  2. Dmg. If you cant get straight to 1shot territory, then anything above 50% dmg is kinda wasted. Maybe consider swapping dmg for action speed boon, and rather take a strength brew instead of a speed one?
  3. Dura. We get more gems, so the hammer should be a smaller part of the equation in final price. Is it worth using 2 10k c hammers instead of wanting that 25k 1shotter?
  4. Not just diamond. Use faster gems, lower damage but higher dura. Aim your forge points towards damage.
    Use crit hammers and substitute your persisting pie with crit loaves/pies.

There can be many ways to get around to similar payoff/cost ways of mining other than the 1hit 9 kill current strategy - this by no means kills any aspect of the game (actually makes tool type, brew and food choices relevant this way)


#62

It did not. Sliding down a mountain kills you almost instantly. Dammit! This could be so good!


#63

I am still trying to figure their need to focus on low / mid content when the population for this to happen is not really in the game at this time.

A “master forger” does not want to craft low level tools just to make them nearly as powerful as unforged higher tools as that’s the reason for becoming a master forger to be able to make end game items more powerful and not mid game items unless there was a market for it and right now it’s minimal.

Punishing high end crafting with random quirks, even with some minor buffs in some cases, will cause many issue for people that craft them or people that are trying to sell / buy tools as now we have to check every item to make sure it’s not useless because of these problems.

Getting to end game crafting should be rewarded just like every other game does as it costs more materials to craft and takes more time and not punished for trying to do just that but still take the drawbacks.

Yes if we ever get more people in the game it can help and making positive changes for mid game forging is fine but killing off high end at the same time is not the way to go.

The biggest thing for high end forging is the increased efficiency cap and two more deck slots.

However more boon points from compounds was not really a thing as now people have no reason to use higher powered compounds since it was already easy to fill the bar.

And the two more deck slots will be used up to remove these quirks or deconstruct until another new way gets discovered to make similar powered tools until it gets nerfed again.

True we will have to see how the increase flexibility works but that just means more boon points really and with the extra vigor / stability drain to remove all the silly quirks on high level gear and without vigor renewal then the days of decent 1 shot aoe t6 tools can easily be over except for those that have the stockpiles.

Instead of trying to kill end game like it seems that keeps happening to slow the resource gathering you need to try to figure out ways to use up these resources instead of the continuous nerfs we have had happen to do just that.

If this was as serious a reason then tossing out more planets that have a ton more resources then the other planets have was the wrong way to go also as that has just made things many times worse.

As people have pointed out pure boon 3 looks to be the way to go as it provides 800 boon with it maxed and no negatives yet shortly this could all people use and it will get nerfed so then what?


#64

I think people will be chasing some of the quirks for perfect items in some circumstances. It’s basically added more potential buff slots to items without extra cost, especially if you were using Draining anyway.

I figure that’s balanced by the recent extra resource cost? Also they have said before they consider it the better boon compound and towards the end of progression so it did need a buff. 400 pts was a bit pathetic for a tier 3 best compound.

I don’t see dramatically better results on testing yet but it did seem like the less well resourced forger got a bit of a boost and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.


#66

True a few could be beneficial but the issue is how will we be able to target them when there are numerous others ones we don’t want?


#67

Yep it will be a tough one to get the right Quirk. I guess there will be more abandoned forges with potential traits if the perfect item is wanted. But at least now if I don’t get the one I’m after there are far fewer that’ll just make me toss the item into an abandoned power coil alley.


#68

To get the right quirk you’d have to invest in quirk transmute solvent, which will eat a slot in your deck… its all about trade offs though.

As for the 200% efficiency, it sounds like the algorithm for that needs to be reconsidered; I could understand maybe 100% for the least flexible gems going up to 200% for wood, but double across the board seems a bit off.

Meh, i suppose that’s why we’re playing around on testing innit :man_shrugging:


#69

Makes me wonder if the next tier of materials will cap lower.


#70

so after playing around a little with some combinations. i found this to work for t6 aoe hammer (just so you know. this was NOT lucky. it was brutal slider after brutal slider, and boon removal needs to have an armor or something that is just pain, but using the decon resin was great!)

Now if you wanted to be more agressive about dealing with quirks i had plenty more to mess around with. and took very little variation from my normal route of making hammers. (yes i used emerald, it doesnt matter which tool/what gem i just wanted to test for boon aquisition.)

I have a few notes for this version of forging at this point though. the extra effectiveness is probably my favorite thing. i makes the Entire library of compounds and items worth looking at. not JUST the top end. not JUST a few of the late game ones. and requires an immense investment in advanced power coils to get to that point. so should feel like good progression for anyone starting around now.

the changes to draining compound are actually really fun. i found myself shuffling what i used alot. and enjoying several of the quirk combos i got for some of the more “useless” tools i came up with. now im debating how to get the “best” combo to add quirk speed to dur/dmg/aoe tools. so looking forward to that beast!

boon/quirk/defect removal solvents… these are brutal. every. single. time. i used them they gave me the same exact boon/quirk/defect right back. that needs to be looked at. maybe not be immune to the same exact thing coming back. but some sort of softening of that effect. it can be really very frustrating.

Resins. right now deconstruction resin feels AMAZING. i love it, absolutely joyous change on it. permanent addition to my forging deck. and then there is setting resin… the obligatory -1 deck slot… it feels, necessary but very sort of wasted. A few suggestions for this, maybe remove setting resin in the deck and just make it have its own slot or remove the need for it at all. make setting sort of a “machine handles that” type of task, and change up resins to include some neat things. example. swift resin, add +5 action speed to finished product, or reduce time needed for product to set. or maybe trade offs, lightness resin, add 5 action speed -5% damage from final tool, heavy resin add 5% damage -5 action speed. Something like those. make resins another cool Choice for us. something we WANT to add to the bar. that can give us some form of minor signature, but simple balanced effects.

Just some ideas. as is im finding these changes to be a blast!. gonna have to farm me some serious ingredients on live! Thanks again for putting these changes on testing for us to mess with! you guys are the BEST devs i have ever dealt with.


#71

Yeah following the trend I’d expect them to have even lower flexibility. And as we all know the only thing stronger than blink, rift or darkmatter is whatever totems are made of. :yum:


#72

This alone is what will ruin my forging 100% if it happens to many times in a row. They need to add bad luck protection on this so that it cannot give you the same thing back more then 1 or 2 times in a row or the chance of it giving you the same thing back drops each time it is used, the vigor cost afterwords becomes quite high, and it is even worse if you have to do this with 2 boons.

The screenshot I posted earlier was the result of this happening about 6 or 7 times.


#73

I’m confused. Do quirks give e positive e and negative now or some are just positive? Their wording in the descriptions in my opinion isnt the best. So can someone clarify for me please


#74

some quirks give both positive and negative, some give simply weird effects like strange noises etc.

they need to be changed in knowledge etc for sure


#75

Awesome! Thank you very much for the clarification😀


#76

The removal solvents will re-roll your relevant slider, so if you have any gums active the chances are better to get effects from that category again.

The transmute solvents don’t re-roll, they flat out change the applied buff. This still targets something else in the same class, but your chances are much better.

Also, transmute can be used at a later stage whereas removal solvents are best used before risking another roll adding points and effectively cementing that trait on your tool.

Even more also; using a fate paste before a removal solvent increases the chance of not getting any defect/quirk (if that’s what you’re aiming for), and allows you to exchange those defect/quirk points away if you so wish


#77

I think the best thing is to look at the above in companion to this: Forge Trait Mega-thread (Updated for Release 203)- Boons, Quirks and Defects! if you hadn’t already found a good reference.


#78

Ugh, forgot this means Ill eventually need to update that again 🤦


#79

Well my original point still stands. I dont want any negative effects on my end game weapons. And I’m so happy for the people that just have the luck or whatever to end a forge with 1000 vigor ,not like it matters if you dont have the stability, however most people cant do that. Frankly I feel the dev’s put a lot of worth into those that say that which clearly gives the wrong impression for the rest of us. Why do we not only have to fight for the coils and mats and against rng and still have negative effects? The point of endgame is to be powerful not nerfed. And let’s face it so many people have already quit and your still concentrating on upping your fan base, as you should, but if you can’t even keep your current fan base I don’t see how that’s gonna help you. Why cant quirks just be weird little details that have no negative effects? And why the hell do you keep attacking boon compound and vigor catalyst when like I said before you still fight rng in forging and gathering the neccessary mats. Just because a select few can pull off having an unnecessary amount of vigor doesnt really mean anything for most. I also dont see you implementing another way to make epic weapons without these negative effects your trying to shove down our throats. And I’ve already seen plenty of comments saying that’s it’s nearly impossible now to get what we had before which I find ridiculous.


#80

I know. and that is fine, when I am using the boon removal solvent, it is for one of two things are both if I am unlucky

Loot collector --> AoE, both are special
and/or
Crit --> Damage, both are effect

The problem is when I for example have the crit boon, and I use the solvent, it gives me back the same crit boon 3 or 4 times in a row.

At this time RR feathers are insanely rare for me, in the time it took me to collect around 270 hopper cores, which they themselfs are rare, I have a grand total of 10 RR feathers. so while this is vaild. it is out of the question for me at this time.

The boon removal is better suited if it was less likely to give back the very same boon.

Due to the stability cost of the fate paste. I only feel like I can use a fate paste after I have all 3 boons on to the item at low levels as there is still a lot of RNG ahead i need to try to account for otherwise. Also not getting a defect or quirk is not even the problem at this time, the problem is just not getting the same boon back again, which can still happen with a fate paste as it doesn’t reduce the chance of that,


#81

Its completely possible, but different. And yes different often makes people uneasy. I hope you are on pc so you can jump onto testing and come try it out?