Heading out: why we quit Boundless

I started playing Boundless with three friends in May. Two of them quit within the first month or so, while the final two of us stopped this week. Here’s my analysis of the game: where it stands, why we quit, and how I hope future updates (or sequels) might be better.

Beware: the following is a novella.

At its core, Boundless is a series of interacting mechanics: mining, foraging (wood, plants), combat, crafting, building, and trading. These mechanics mostly have clear relationships to eachother. Unfortunately, each of them is deeply flawed in its own way. These flaws share some common themes, which has implications for the game’s future. But first, to individual problems:

Mining and foraging:

  1. Lack of mechanical progression. Mining silver is baaaaasically the same as mining gems (I didn’t mine anything Luscent – I assume it’s the same). On higher tier planets, it’s faster to chisel and scout than mine, but the principle doesn’t change. Caves are still useful if slightly dangerous, rock still have seams, lava and water are still worth watching out for. This makes mining boring. This also applies to foraging for basic mushrooms vs. glowcaps or whatever.

  2. Weird character progression. I’ll be harping on this in many contexts, but the point at which a mining character surpasses a level 19 character is quite late. Just the ability to respec in and out of environments for travel and shadow step (or whatever it’s called – the anti-aggro one) for getting to the mining zone saves a bunch of skill points. Add in being able to swap between chisel-oriented and hammer-oriented skills, and it’s a tough sell not to purposefully die to prevent hitting level 20. Foraging has similar atmosphere issues, though I think the 20+ character surpasses the 19 earlier.

Crafting:

  1. Let’s be honest, this is dull as hell. The only crafting activity with any thought involved is forging, which is very expensive.

  2. Weird character progression: forging is maxed at level 17, and no crafting skill requires 20+. So a level 19 is always optimal for this. Worse, the mutually exclusive skills double down on this.

Combat:

  1. Elemental resists make no sense. Apparently some enemies are resistant to… iron? And it makes them take zero damage? What?

  2. Enemy variety falls over 1/3 of the way in the game. After cuttletrunks and hoppers there’s… nothing. Where’s the rest of the game?

  3. Defensive stats are non-optional. The difference is being 2-shot vs. being invulnerable up to strong enemies.

  4. Drops are pretty boring. This seems to be forced by the interaction with other systems and the economy. Nothing useful can be a drop, because combat players need to be forced to participate in the economy and interact with other players – drops have to be inputs to crafting that also requires mined and foraged goods, etc.

  5. There are two types of combat: plain (pretty bad) and meteor (the good kind). No bosses, no anything else… nothing. Oh, and plain is just “enemies spawn in if there’s X space in front of you, roughly in a pack.”

  6. Weapon “variety” is terrible. It is: slingbows. Does anyone use bombs? And there’s nothing else.

  7. Enemy balance is terrible. High tier spitters are kinda scary, but everything else is a pushover… except the mighty (WARK!) cuttletrunk. Heavily armored, very mobile, high damage… I don’t really understand the design goals here.

Building:
OK, building is pretty awesome. It’s sometimes annoying to mine 2000 rock because you want 1000 shiny rock to build a wall, but it’s not tooooo too bad. And you can build lots of cool, creative stuff. That said…

  1. The lack of dedicated player space is just awful. Using plots to claim wild space is a neat idea in theory, and discovering player bases can be fun, but it forces the degradation mechanic, which forces the beacon mechanic (and oort for portals), and it’s all just… tedium. I’ll be sad to see our base go in case we ever come back, but logging in every 4 weeks and running around to a dozen beacons is just not my idea of a good time.

  2. Weird character progression. Again, I’m pretty sure building skills max out sub-20, and therefore building is best handled by a permanent-19 jack of all trades.

Trading:
What a mess. Half of the economy is run through external sites using an API, but finding shops is a huge pain. The game can’t decide if it’s all about economic simulation with lots of liquidity to avoid pain, or if it’s a side-show for bargain hunters to score big wins. Of course, economic simulation is also really, really boring. It’s basically an optimization problem for converting player-time into coins. I can spend an hour mining diamonds and trade half of them to someone who spent an hour farming hoppers? OH BOY! I can’t even add “weird character progression” here, because there is none.

OK, that’s enough about the flaws in individual systems. What is the fundamental theme? Why has Boundless lost us?

If you’ve read up to here, you may already know: variety, progression, and skill are all lacking. Crafting games like Terraria and Dig or Die do this beautifully. They have many biomes, each is fun to discover and unique, and each provides fundamentally new challenges… and new rewards if you complete them. Boundless just doesn’t do this well beyond the first couple hours – if you’ve fought off cuttletrunks and gathered silver or medium coal on a T3 planet, you’ve basically seen everything the game has to offer. Planets have different biomes, but they’re all on the surface, and all “equal” – the only progression is to the next planet. While Terraria has something like a dozen layers of progression on one world, Boundless manages to achieve 6 – T2 through T7 – in an entire galaxy. Even those are often not very meaningful, beyond numerical differences.

Of course, this core, systemic issue is also the greatest reason for optimism. Each of these systems has so much room for improvement, that this game could be really, really great. Players could come for just the combat, love that so much that they never touch the equally great mining, and use the smooth, effective market to get the mined resources they need. Players could admire the best crafters, whose work is highly valued, because they are just that much better at churning out top quality gear, even with the same input resources. Making all of the systems this wonderful is a huge challenge, but this is not a game that’s achieved its full potential and found there’s nothing there. This is a game that has tons of room to grow, it just needs to actually grow. I’ll keep hoping.

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So you played for 5 ish months and purposefully never got past level 19? Or did you keep going? While the ability to repurpose points as much as you want before level 20 is helpful, I personally prefer to have fully fleshed out, thoughtful character builds. Proper crafters can’t be done before level 19 imo. The game gets easier and more fun the more skill points and skill pages you get.

I’m not saying any of this to convince you, just saying it in case someone new stumbles across this post, I feel like they should know your level of enjoyment is about how you play the game.

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Hello!

Thanks for sharing. :slightly_smiling_face:

Did you know?
There’s already a topic for posts like this.

Have a great weekend! :blush:

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I don’t think anyone uses this method by the time they can really mine on T6/T7 planets :woman_shrugging:. Most people use a max AOE hammer with speed & starberry pie to grab all the gems they can.

Not sure how you would add more excitement to gathering a simple :mushroom: mushroom.

:thinking: You shouldn’t have shadow epic on your miner - that would be wasting points.

Getting at least one main character to level 50, then adding alts/additional characters is the way to progress and tackle multiple professions. Staying under level 20 isn’t really helpful. You can take a new alt/character over level 20 in one day if you have the time.

By the time you are going after enemies with elemental resistances, you should have progressed beyond iron weapons. At least use a gold fist, if not the correct slingbow.

Weapons: slingbows, fists, totems, bombs (axes, shovels, & hammers can be used as melee). More would be great.

I like portals, but I don’t like fueling them either.

Finding items for sale is easy, just search your in-game scanner. The game doesn’t control the economy. It’s character created/driven. If the demand for oort is high, it sells for more (ie 330 coins). If the demand wanes, it sells for less (ie 99 coins).

Yes, we all hope BL continues to progress & add more things :+1:

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you had to see the game 1 year ago buddy…if you think this is bad
they came a long way since then with improving the game with feedback from players
some good some bad, but we cannot win everything right?
i leave it at this.

have an awesome different gameplay, and hopefully we will see you in ‘‘the future’’ (pun intended)

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Not trying to undermine your whole message here, but, respectfully, your take on skill pages undermines your whole message.

Level 19 is a complete builder?? Have you ever used double jump? Ever consider maxing out power and hammer skills so you can use a lower level hammer to break misplaced blocks? Max out grappling, attribute bonus, action speed, even stamina and health? Then throw environmental protections on that character so you can go shopping for your current build without switching skill pages? Maybe some crafting points for simple stuff?

I can empathize with you to a certain point. I build 90% of the time so I don’t mind the weak combat system but I like fighting in general and wish it was more enjoyable in Boundless so I’d be more willing to put that time in.

Comparing it to non-mmo’s though is like apples to oranges. Reminds me of a scathing review I saw on ESO where they were furious it wasn’t as deep and grandiose as Skyrim. It’s an mmo, if you have no interest in that aspect then you’ll be more pleased with the more intricate details of a single player game. You know why Terraria doesn’t have hundreds/thousands of players on one map? Because they can’t. Boundless will continue to improve gradually through multiple updates per year, and immensely through technological advances.

Take some time off, nobody is going to tell you to play a game you don’t want to play. If you come back in a year there will 100% be some new features. Whether they’re the features you’re hoping for is unknown but they could be.

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MajorVex, Host, and DutchOfSorissi all had constructive points in their posts but I gotta say yours is neither helpful nor necessary. Sure you can post what you want but so can the OP. No need to kick the downtrodden…

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Its only one persons point of view. Yes doesn’t really relate with me. But no need for those kinda words. More like doors always open when u change your mind.

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I am not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate?

I completely agree with you here - if they are going to make them immune call it an immunity. Electronics are water resistant, clothing can be fire resistant, but fire and water can still cause damage. Resistance is supposed to hinder, not hault.

I have used them in the past and not noticed any difference, so I stopped wasting my skill points on them - unless they drastically changed how the defensive stats calculate damage I’d strongly disagree with this one. I go on T6 hunts occasionally without them and rarely die (I do bring healing bombs though if I get in a tough spot)

:+1: this is the only mechanic I have always debated was pay-to-win (which in all honesty I participate in)
You can either fork over the dough or lose all progression when taking a break. It’s better now with the reclaim system, as you don’t lose your stuff. But you still lose hundreds or thousands of hours of building if you are competing for the prestige high scores.

While I agree this is the case, any game with an economy (and one could even say life itself) follows the same pattern. Why would I spend an hour digging through a garbage dump to find scrap worth $5 when I can flip burgers for $11? Some people do sell stuff for cheaper as it is a byproduct from another activity or they just don’t value their time.

I’d strongly disagree with that if you aren’t hundreds of hours deep into the game or starting off with a group of people to help spread the work load. Until I had 2-3 lvl 50 characters crafting simple recipes was dreadfully awkward. I kept making new characters, leveling them up some but under 20 so that I could rearrange crafting skill points, until they reached 20 then made another character. Splitting crafting isn’t forcing oortians into specializations as intended, it’s forcing multiple characters or skill pages.

With the vastness of the universe, scarcity of players, and lack of incentive for player interactions it doesn’t quite feel like it. Most activities are done better alone. Meteors are the closest thing to massively multiplayer and even then you are in a group comparable to a Call of Duty lobby - anything over that the game can barely handle anyways.

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This is not pay to win by any means. It doesnt cost money to refuel your beacons to keep them going and i believe the high end beacon fuel gives you 16 weeks.

The deffinition of pay to win is:

Games that let you buy better [gear] or [allow you] to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely [unbalanced] even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

I have said this dozens of times the past few weeks. I am a game programmer and designer and Boundless IS NOT i repeat IS NOT PAY TO WIN.

This is just as bad as thenfolks who say they have reached the end game. WTF? There is no end game, it is a building and crafting game not World Of Warcraft, EOS or Never Winter Nights of which the last two are the working deffinition of Pay To Win.

Also Gleam Club isn’t even a pay to win feature as far as the working definition because 1. You can use advanced fuel to fuel your beacons and 2. It costs 25 bucks for 6 months. I dont know another game that is that cheap and it is more of a feature to fiscally help support the developers and keel the game going.

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Even better it’s actually 16 weeks. So you’d theoretically only have to login like 3 times a year to refuel your beacons.

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In all honesty if that is too much work for someone then something is wrong. Login, buy fuel if you dont already have a stack, refuel beacons log out. I have 13 different beacons and could do this in 15 minutes.

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it’s physical resistance - any sling or fist will have some shots fully resisted by a creature with this ability

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Yeah. Some even take extra elemental damage from iron :woman_shrugging:

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Thank you for the feedback :grin: I’m sure the devs will find it helpful when they revisit new player experience, progression, and activity expansion / improvements.

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You and OP make some valid points, and sadly in many cases (definitely not all), you’re right about it feeling less like an mmo as it should, and used to be. I’ve been the antagonist in some threads about things like grinding that drive other people away, thus weakening the mmo feel for me which makes me anti-grind. I come to these posts to gather info as to why others are quitting, since that is ultimately what I want to change about the game…

A year and a half ago, when my city was at peak population, I’d log on to see 15 people chatting and goofing around. It made building so much more fun than any single player game, despite how much slower I’d build because I would stop and chat half the time. But once we expanded too far so that some were out of shout range, it fell apart very quickly. I think [lack of] shout distance has had a worse effect on the game than we may realize.

The chat system may need about as big of an overhaul as the last time they updated it. Universal channels are a great idea but they are unreliable, as you don’t know if the question that just popped up was asked at that time or 3 hours before- then you answer to no one and anyone who sees your message is like huhh? Guild chat is just as unreliable. Also due to feedback from people who hate seeing random messages and wish they could mute chat entirely, I feel like people would hate me for cracking jokes and having conversations that don’t relate to the game. That type of stuff keeps my mind fresh when I’m building and I wish the system allowed for it in a way that only people who want to see it have to.

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I appreciate the time you took to clearly explain your thoughts about BL. Hopefully your feedback will be read by the developers.

Sorry to see you go, I can agree with you about how much more potential BL has. I think the game will continue to improve with time and hopefully we’ll see you back in the game one day.

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I can understand some things, but you really had friends to share activities with. I don’t currently know anyone in the game due to language issues and I try to do things like exchanges and other activities that I can do on my own.

I admit that sometimes I feel like getting out of the game because the routine of going to the stores to restock and just going out bores me, but the game has a lot of good things.

My main problems currently in the game are three.
1- I know that developing a game is not easy, but currently they are a bit slow with sovereign and creative worlds and it is not something for me, so I will have to wait a long time without content that I enjoy.
2- I started a construction (not very big), but he asks me for many plots and it really bores me a lot to get plots that sell out quickly without being able to build much.
3- The lack of trustworthy people and my language (Spanish) with whom I can perform various activities such as hunting, and other things.

In spite of everything, I’m not bad at all, I enjoy it as much as I can in my own way.

I hope that one day you go back to your friends and find fun things to do together.

A greeting.

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Maybe @Cuetzpalomitl can take you on one of his hunts if he’s still doing them? He can speak Spanish. I’ve seen it.

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Sí, él hace un tiempo me ayudó mucho sobre como subir mis personajes para minería y otras cosas, me fue bastante útil, pero actualmente juego poco y no quisiera comprometer a nadie, pero agradezco mucho la propuesta!

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