HELP! Give us your opinion on refactoring prestige calculation?

Devlog
184

I think the idea is to aim for a balanced system. Right now the margins between ‘the next best block’ are a little wide. Then there’s also things like bricks, which are time consuming to create, but equal in Prestige value to Refined Gleam - or Ornate Wooden doors, which are equal to the materials used to make them.

People who game the system will always look for the most efficient route, but right now even casual players are turning to the gleam route for ‘easy Prestige’.

Tighten the margins and we’ll see a more diverse use of blocks.

3 Likes
185

(sorry long post)

i also want to spend my 2 cents on that.

Im not a fan of gleam towers (or machined metal towers, or even gem towers)
BUT
there are ppl that have fun in pushing the prestige, like on gellis the TacoLand guys seems to have alot fun with that, and this is fine!
If they have fun, let them.
Because we all here to have fun.
If i care about prestige / being capital: i start spending more prestige aswell.
even when i hide it inside buildings, but at the end its the same: i just build some stuff to put prestige in

what i want to say is: ppl cried about “stuff that i have fun with is removed” in terms of bomb mining, and now some of this same ppl are the ones that want to remove the fun for ppl that have just fun in pushing theyr prestige up by ruining it with some vote stuff.

i would not bind it to some kind of voting system.
there will allways be ppl / places that are more popular and more visited then others, and if i have alot friends and ask them to vote this would also give me a benefit over a person that is rather a soloist.
my tip is: let the general system as it is, just recalculate the values.

with the values fine, than it is also fine if the most prestige owning person can name the settlement, since this person puts most efford (in gathering blocks wise) into the city.

no matter if you find it ugly what he/she build, that is the thing in an sandbox game: do whatever you want, even if others find it ugly!
you got no right for a clearsky, unless you claimed it all :stuck_out_tongue:
ofc you free to go over there and tell him “oh this is ugly man” or write a sign next to it “UGLY ->”

nobody is “punished” for building with lower prestige values, if you build with them because you like them more (like stone or timber) then do it!
if you care about prestige, then use bricks, refined, decrative etc.
(assuming the prestige values are being recalculated)

how would i calculate prestige values?
my way would be to calculate how many of each blocks are existend in the whole universe (if it would all be in its natural state without buildings)
and sum it for blocks that need to be created.

add the sum of all blocks togheter and then divide it by the share of each block kind.
examples:
rockPrestige - all blocks existend in universe / all rock bocks existing
stonePrestige - rockPrestige / 4
refined -> amount of stones needed per refined * stonePrestige

gems - all blocks existend in universe / gem type block * 10

clay - all blocks existend in universe / all clay bocks existing
compact clay - clayPrestige * clay needed for compact
ash - all blocks existend in universe / all ash bocks existing
mud- all blocks existend in universe / all mud bocks existing

bricks - prestigesum of needed compact ash mud stone

the result will be very high values, but they should align with the gaining efford / rareness of the blocks.
those high values can then be normalized/shifted down so that the lowest of it lands on 1

1 Like
186

I like your idea but that would put gleam even higher, yeah? With a potential for duplicate color blocks of the same type, i.e. Igneous from Serpensarindi and Igneous from Galan, would there be a potential for a decaying prestige value as the universe expands?

187

I agree with looking at it again, but to be honest I think most of the system is working fine as long as the effort of creating the blocks is kept being considered.

Suggesting a possible solution to prestige dumps: maybe make it so that blocks arranged in a manner that fills up without empty space, thicker than 4x4 give no/halve prestige? That’s not a perfect solution at all, but it does help. Unless there’s a good reason to have a wall/floor that is 5+ thick. I dunno, something that popped in mind.

188

Hi. I don’t really post much. I also don’t have a large settlement. I am no where close to being a leading build anywhere. I played for some time during early-access betaish phase, One thing I know is this: many many many people abuse the prestige system as it is now. Back when I played, one huge argument was a bunch of ppl having 10s (sometimes 100s) of plots filled with nothing but machines. Refined gleam has always been a problem, but at that time it was less a problem because it was 10-1 ratio for gleam to refined… now it is 1-1. (or 1-0.66 or whatever). It needs revamping for sure.

I agree with the primary sentiments of what prestige is. It should be reflective of cost not beauty and and it should be to gauge the work you have put into your build. Just because you have 100,000 refined gleam blocks, does not necessarily represent that. All that really means is that you religiously login at the exact same time everyday and mass farm all the gleam available for a short time (because there is not too much of it), and then throw it in a machine to refine it, 1-1. That is not progress. That is camping. Even worse, it could be on the same level as gold-farming from other games.

Variety is important for sure; however, that should be considered carefully. Just because you have a hodgepodge of blocks from every planet in some eclectic distribution on your build, does not mean you spent a lot of time or effort on it. Another thing to consider, is we don’t want every settlement to be a gigantic rainbow. What would be better is if you could detect parts of the build having some sort of stylistic theme, and that every part of a build is not identically themed. For instance, Having a house that is red brick with a nice black roof, and a front porch and a few windows aesthetically placed around it… then a styled road out the front door, with a theme, maybe comprised of a small variety of blocks in a certain pattern… then across the street, a different building, maybe a warehouse, made of green refined stone with a nice brown wooden roof and no windows, with tonnes of shelves inside… etc. ‘variety’ should be important, but not if it is just throwing 500 different types of blocks inside on plot. That would be terrible.

Another thing that is not explicitly mentioned… anywhere I have seen at least… is giving bonuses to builds that embrace some part of ‘nature’. It is cool to have an awesome town you made from scratch… but one thing that makes towns livable, at least in real life, are the natural aspects of parts of the town. Take a look at large cities in the US. Sure they are primarily pavement and brick and concrete… but there are also parks! In most places in the US, having a park nearby significantly increases your realestate value. Maybe the same, or similar should be true here. If you keep the world-generated trees or grass or flowers, as they were when you claim the plot, you should get a bonus for that, as long as it is not the primary part of your settlement.

I like the current sentiment of the bonuses you get from having blocks from other worlds in your build. How is the bonus for these calculated? Is the bonus static, regardless of where it comes from? Or is there a weight to it? Is a block that is extremely easy to gather on a T1 planet worth the same bonus amount as the 5 blocks you died multiple times to obtain from a T7 planet? If not, shouldn’t it be?

Also, even though I am a big proponent of nerfing refined gleam and similar blocks values, I do still think they should be worth at least slightly more than normal blocks that require the same effort. This is because of two main reasons. First, gleam provides light, which makes it an extremely functional block (so much that you can see it from great distances). Second, visually, when used in the correct proportions, it can be extremely pleasing aesthetically. For instance… lets say a refined stone is worth 5. Refined gleam should be worth like 7 base. Here is a chart explaining my thoughts on why:

Refined Stone:

  • base block is rock (3)
  • requires rock to turn to stone (1)
  • requires stone to be refined in refinery (1)

Refined Gleam:

  • base block is gleam (3)
  • gleam is a rare resource (1)
  • requires gleam to be refined in refinery (1)
  • provides light source (1)
  • is visually pleasing (1)

On final thought. Personally, I think if a block is not visible, or at the most one space away from being visible (like embedded corners), then it should be reduced in value. This would prevent stuff like I described from beta, where people literally had plots and plots with nothing but 8-deep 8-wide machine placements too boost their score. This is not helping anyone, it is a waste of resources, and most importantly it is not really showing progress fory our build. All it means is that you can mass-craft, which is something you can do, not your build.

These are my thoughts. I’m sure everyone has their own take, and my voice will be drowned out by the crowd. But on the off chance this actually gets read, hopefully I have made my primary points clear: variety is good to an extent, ‘stuffing’ should be devalued, style/theme is important, bonuses should be weighted, some blocks should be nerfed but not completely, and hidden blocks should be devalued.

Loushou

1 Like
189

This is an amazing idea. I interpreted this probably different than you meant it, but I think this idea has some merit:

Make a type of block have a certain total max value per planet, and then distribute a portion of that value to every block of that type on the planet. So like refined gleam can be worth a total of 1,000,000 points on the plant, and if there are 2,000,000 of those blocks, then each one is worth 0.5 points.

Maybe not to this extreme, or maybe with some type of scaling to that maximum number… but I think this is a great idea that will cut down on ‘stuffing’ and ‘gleam banks’ and the like.

190

way… way more than a ‘few’ people are complaining about gleam banks. just like way… way more than a few people complained about taking over a smaller settlement by putting a one plot road to it from a larger one. if you look at the facts, maybe you wouldn’t be so grumpy

191

oh yes, gleam is where my idea might fail…
right

192

I apologize if this was brought up already, but not going to read the entire thread.

My thoughts are as follows:

  1. Blocks should continue to have similar points to what they have now. For the sake of this example I’m calling them block points to differentiate it from prestige, the output of the formula.

  2. Population density modifier - I feel the formula for calculating prestige of a settlement should include a modifier based on the number of settlers in the area.

  3. Gleam spamming - Blocks that are completely surrounded by other blocks should give minimal to no block points.

  4. Redundancy modifier - blocks in abundance within the build should give reduced block points.

  5. Player modifier - allow players a way to vote up or rank a build. Ie a menu in the beacon with 5 star system. Allow only a positive effect to reward players who focus on aesthetics.

  6. Time/visitor modifier - the longer the settlement has been around, slowly it gains more prestige.

1 Like
193

im not a fan of benefiting players that just have more friends over soloplayers.
if a solo player make the same work as 5 other player togheter, why should that 5 have more points?
that would be the case with your points 2 and 5.

some ppl just not the best builders or just not creative, but they also want to have something to work for.
and those ppl have the prestige system!
dont ruin the fun for those ppl just because you personally find gleam towers ugly, its a thing of taste.

2 Likes
194

With regards to gleam towers You obviously didn’t read my points. Fair enough you may want to solo, but it’s not a fair system if 3 people can spam gleam (not towers, but giant masses of gleam) and take over a capital. Variety, creativity, community, utility and history should be what prestige represents in my opinion, whether you respect that or not.

There is nothing prestigious about the current system. It should be renamed block points, because that’s all it is.

pres·tige

/preˈstēZH,preˈstēj/

noun

  1. widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements.

synonyms: status, standing, stature, reputation, repute, regard, fame, note, renown, honor, esteem, celebrity, importance, prominence, influence, eminence;More

  • denoting something that arouses respect or admiration.

modifier noun: prestige

“prestige wines”

1 Like
195

with gleamtowers i dont meant you in person, i rather ment the ppl that dislike the prestige system in general, or the fact that gleamtowers are working.

well the settlement naming thing is another topic to me, and i thought most ppl expect this to change anyway with guild system?

i would agree with history, i.e. old buildings getting prestige just for staying there.

but the other things (Variety, creativity) are a thing of taste and personal preference.
not possible to judge this with an algorythm, and a vote system would just give those ppl more points that just have more traffic (got more portals to big networks running) or more friends.

there could be a vote system to figure out most favorited places, but it should not have anything to do with rights of a settlement.

edit: o ye and a new word might help abit.

196

Just remove prestige and add settlement beacons which only can be fueled by ppl living there. Warden is the one who placed the beacon and viceroy the city with the most members (account based).

197

I would like to see a small prestige credit for foreign soil colors. Soil colors that are from another planet in my mind should at least 2 points. Domestic soils should be zero. Just my opinion.

198

This. Encouraging variety is a good thing, but at the same time it should not punish consistency. Currently it already seems to be almost impossible to keep the variety bonus on bigger builds if you don’t want it to look like a mess. I’m not sure how it is currently calculated, but perhaps it could consider variety on a per-chunk or per-plot (or plot-column) basis rather than the entire beacon?

Really looking forward to more information being available in the beacon UI and I hope more information like that will become available too. It will be a lot easier to give feedback on how things are calculated if we actually know how they are calculated.

When it comes to the actual values, I have been building a lot recently and found a few things that I definitely think are odd:

Dark Glass: grants 12 base prestige out of the box, no refining or otherwise processing needed which I think definitely doesn’t compare fairly to Decorative Wood/Rock (also 12) and Brick (10). Even Gleam pales in comparison.

Doors and Trap Doors: considering the cost, they seem incredibly low in prestige. I was really surprised that even Ornate Gleam Doors only grant 12 base, which is laughable when comparing the cost to Decorate Wood/Rock or of course Dark Glass, both of which grant just as much. Especially considering they are the most spark consuming recipe in the game, alongside Greater Beacon Fuel.

Stylish Metal Doors/Trapdoors: a more concrete example, because I have been using them a lot in my build recently and looked into it out of curiosity.
When comparing them to Machined Metal, it definitely becomes clear that some values need to be tweaked. For this I’m going to assume Mass Crafting and using Iron:
The doors cost ~6.19 Iron per piece.
Machined Iron puts you down ~2.69 per piece which is less than half… but grants 10 times the prestige, not to mention the additional Spark and time cost (and Ancient Tech Remnants) of doors. Despite needing 3 steps - compacting, refining and machining - it still adds up to less time than a single craft of doors.

Though I do also think that in general, crafting time shouldn’t be valued too much for prestige values anyway. At the end of the day you don’t have to actively do anything to “alleviate” that cost, unlike with Spark, Wax, etc. As far as I’m concerned, any refining that doesn’t actually cost Spark or other resources is essentially free (especially because you usually end up with more blocks anyway), and thus maybe shouldn’t have a prestige ratio change to the extend that it does.

Hence why I also think the Machined Metal “Progression” doesn’t make much sense: 50/60/70/70/80 does not represent the ratio of effort and resources required very well, in my opinion.

I’m not saying what should be nerfed and what should be buffed specifically, because I have only so much data and grasp of the “big picture” to go on. Most likely it should be a mix of both nerfing certain blocks as well as buffing others to even things out, I trust the devs to make the right decisions.

I also think it would be healthy to differentiate spawned natural block prestige from placed natural block prestige in some way. It does pain me a little to see a lot of those really awesome looking medieval or otherwise themed builds lacking reward for their effort. Aesthetics aside, they still spent time gathering and placing those blocks, which is not an effort worth 0 (in the case of Trunks, Sand, Ice, Foliage, etc.) in my opinion.

Another thing I’d like to quickly touch on is the prestige and footfall progression. In my opinion it could be a bit more granular, meaning seeing smaller increases, but more frequently. As an example, the step from 250000 for 40 to 1250000 for 60 is massive and pretty discouraging, so why not insert some steps (750000 for 50 just as an example) in between?

2 Likes
199

Just chiming in,

Some of the guys (who aren’t me) in the Etherian Woods do pretty amazing work with trunk blocks. The whole area is covered with huge custom trees and root systems and the guild hall is rich night orange. A lot of it is chiseled in ways I can’t even figure out.

If trunks are worth zero then a huge portion of the work put in is not counted. Which can’t be intentional.

4 Likes
200

Don’t forget you still have to have regen bombs to collect a sizable amount of these in a reasonable amount of time, and it doesn’t yet have a refined or compacted form which would boost it beyond gleam by multiplying the quantity of the block with mass crafts

1 Like
201

I almost mentioned it, but didn’t because you have to do the same for some types of Gleam as well, which people consider worth nerfing already, although even after refining doesn’t end up at 12 prestige. Also considering how easy to make/cheap Regen Bombs are I don’t think it justifies the prestige compared to other blocks, since you can still get several thousands from just one bag of iron bombs. Plus, you get a bunch of Light Tan Gleam in the process on top of that.

202

Don’t forget Dark Glass is T6+, but gleam is all tiers. Block health/hammer level required is probably a bit higher for reasonable farm times on the dark glass.

For comparison, you’ve got 36 Dark Glass locked in @ 12 base prestige each for a total of 432 prestige. 36 Gleam at 6 base prestige can be turned into 50 refined gleam @ 10 prestige each for a total of 500 prestige, so these lower tier gleams are outclassing the higher tier block from a cost standpoint

2 Likes
203

I don’t think prestige is an issue for me as it’s not something that I chase, but the biggest problem, that I can see, is the negative behaviours that it seems to invoke in some players. I don’t think tinkering with the prestige settings will change that. More control over your beacon, such as having to give consent for another settlement to connect to yours might help stop it being an issue. Or, being able to opt your settlement out of the prestige league tables so that connecting to it would add zero prestige to the encroacher’s settlement?

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