Len's Huge List:Update 3

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Get ready to read my dudes.

So, I’m new to the game, and already I see a lot of work and things that need changed. Being the odd man out I am, I figured I’d just list them all out in one huge thread,So if you don’t wanna read all my long argumentative reasons, here’s a TL:DR. They’re mostly gameplay wise. If the Devs show interest, I’m always willing to debate and elaborate my ideas, ideas are easy to create for me, but refining them is a little more difficult.

The ability to paint blocks
A chiseling preveiw
Stacks based off of tool type, not their material
Death Penalty Adjustments(Moved Topic)
Trees with no roots(Claimed roots) Don’t regenerate/go away
Mastery with tools based on how long you have used that type of tool
Complete Rework of skill point mechanics
Dungeons!
Undo Chiseling
Farming
Pick up liquids
Edit 2 Ideas:
New Liquids for Planet Climates
Better Gem Effects
Armor
Edit 3 Ideas:
Grenades
Better Slides
New mob:Healer/armorer

Ready to read? Good.

The Ability to paint blocks
I mean come on, having a different color for each block of the same type? Why not a cooler lore piece? Maybe when picking up blocks the essence of life within them,color, is lost, thus a special tool is needed to extract said essence. Said tool would be kind of like a vacuum, sucking up the color from blocks and storing the color from them inside. The block in the world would then become “bleached”,as if you had picked it up and placed it again. The vacuum could then invert this state by expelling the color it had taken, painting the block again. This could be accomplished by giving blocks in the world each an RGB value, that the vacuum then takes, and can expel in paint mode.

If that’s too hard to program, Why not just a brush and pallet? Get dyes from plants, grind them with (Sap,tallow,wax?) to make paint. Done.

A Chiseling preview

Too many times have I started to chisel and it CHISELS THE WRONG PART. Some way to preview what we’re doing would be much appreciated. A simple hologram would be good for this purpose, highlighting the part of the block that will be deleted/stick around.

Stacks based on the type of tool, not the material.

Let me stack my Iron hammers and stone hammers. That is all.

Death Penalty Adjustments(Moved)

Go check out Len's List 2: Electric Boogaloo

Trees with no roots decay

Been said before, if you claim a trees roots the top of it decays, it’s annoying.

Mastery based on time of tool used

This is part of the next point a bit, but let me explain. The current way of gaining tool mastery eats up valuable skill points, which desperately need reworked in my opinion.
Instead of spending points to master a tool, simply using it should give mastery, the more you use a tool correctly, the more EXP you gain towards that tools mastery, allowing you to use All variations of that tool faster and more effectively, so that they use less durability.

Ooooh boy, here comes the long one.

Complete Skills rework

Here’s where one of my main philosophies come into play. “Why try something new/unorthodox when you know of something that will work better?” I know that there are many arguments against doing everything the same, but for the base of something, its best not to stray from what works. You wouldn’t build a house with a balloon for a base because “No one has tried it yet” Would you? This is what I see in the skills system, it seems to push people towards having multiple characters all specialized in something different, without allowing people to have one character that can do everything. Here is my system that allows for both play-styles to be viable.
I suggest replacing all skill points with EXP bars for each different activity, and reserving skill points for Skills, like return to death point,temporary double damage, emit light, ect.
For example, you can gain Health EXP (and some dmg EXP) by eating foods with meat,Strengthening your body against blows.
Health regen XP from staying at near full HP(<90%) as your body learns to repair damages
Stamina XP by running, building cardio
Using a (Tool here) for (Tool here) Expertise EXP.
ETC.
(I will be honored to think of a nice system for any type of XP if the devs show interest in this idea)
This, combined with a skill-point cap High enough to have all skills at max level Would allow for multiple play-styles.
Those who enjoy the current system of having many characters could do just that, train each character to be the best at one thing, like hunting, mining,gathering, etc., and move on to the next, always able to use them, whereas those like myself could simply have one character good at everything, and should I ever need something I can’t yet make, I could simply hire someone who can do it, or grind myself up to the point I can by doing that task more.

Edit 1: Thanks to @ElfMarine & @Zina

However, to balance the fact you only “Need” one character, **the more skills a character learns, the less EXP they gain for new/non-mastered XP, or maybe just less XP overall, this would be balanced so that it would be easier to simply make and level new characters, however, those more stubborn could simply continue to level their normal character.
If you accidentally leveled a skill you didn’t like, a mid game tonic (Maybe elixir of Forgetfulness?) Would allow you to reset certain skills (Better alchemists may even be able to make some that refund some of the XP to put towards something of your choice!)

End Edit #1
This would allow more people to play an enjoy the game longer While still keeping the theme that players should be interdependent on each-other.
Dungeons

More for when the game is more developed, just something to encourage exploration.

Undo Chiseling

Everyone makes mistakes, and its really annoying to have to dig the block back up. Maybe a special “Restore Cube” Chisel, or just an “Undo” button when holding a chisel.

Farming

A great compliment to any voxel game, the ability to just sit back and nurture your crops. Maybe some could make new food with new effects, ward off wildstock, or some other thing.

Pick Up Liquids

'Nuff said, waterfalls are cool. Maybe make them only place-able in a claimed area, and they wont exit claimed areas.

New Liquids
Planets atmospheres are coming, so why only have Lava and water? I propose two new liquids: Liquid Nitrogen and
fluoroantimonic Acid
fluoroantimonic Acid is found on ACIDIC planets, and is basically green lava, It could be used in machining, perhaps being used to make special fancy Etched Blocks
Liquid Methane is found on COLD planets, and is Blue lava, what a shock. Perhaps it could be used to make machines faster, as your machines wont overheat under this!

Better gem effects
They just don’t feel right to me, Diamonds should have MASSIVE crit chance, topaz should do AoE damage, as the lightning hops from enemy to enemy, Sapphire should slow enemies down, Emerald should Erode enemies armor, making each hit do more and more damage,Amethyst causes a deadly plague to whittle down enemies health massively over time, Rubies should ignite Hellish fires that deal damage very quickly, and I propose a new tool, the Opal tool, acting as a father to all gem tools, using one of these could do anyone of these effects, at random, including a chance to Cause a Sparkling Mote to appear, distracting enemies or weakening blocks around you. Perhaps these effects could ONLY be triggered when Fully Charging the tool and having the proper mastery,as they all invoke powerful magics from the tools. For the non charge tools, a small chance would suffice (Or maybe a very small stacking debuff?)

Armor
Do I really need to explain this? Maybe more when the devs are closer to that kind of stuff.
End Edit 2

Edit 3
Grenades
Grenades. like bombs, are explosive and damaging! however, due to their smaller size, they cant quite damage blocks.
They are made similarly to bombs, except with some sand/gravel (and gem dust for added effect!)
Cryo(Sapphire) grenades freeze enemies, making them slow and more susceptible to damage
Incendiary(Ruby) grenades light things on fire!
Toxic(Emerald) grenades leave a toxic cloud, damaging anything inside and poisoning them
Shock(Topaz) grenades zap enemies,stunning them and dealing minor damage
Caustic(Amethyst) grenades leave a cloud of acid in the air, dealing medium damage and eroding the armor off of enemies, lowering their max health and making them slightly more weak to damage
Shrapnel(Diamond) grenades do Massive damage, ignoring the armor of enemies,because whats harder than diamonds?

Better slides
Because Ice is more slippery/faster than the block called S L I D E, and the texture looks like fresh baby vomit.

New Mob: Healer/armorer
Hunts are kind of one sided at the moment, the mobs stand no chance because any damage delt stays, so what if there was a certain mob that looked like a plant/crystal that healed/gave armor(less damage to armor than health) to mobs nearby? This would also add some more rock/paper/scissors to the game,which I like, as fire could do more damage to flesh, while acid does more damage to armor, and poison does less damage than most, but ignores armor(And stacks!)
Maybe something similar to this enemy from Dungeon Defenders 2

Or maybe a bulbasaur looking thing. Or both! One for armor, one for health.

End edit 3

If you read all this, Congrats! Tell me what you think, debate with me on discord(V2_Len_Kagamine#3723) and maybe spread my ideas around the community. I see a lot in this game and if I knew how to program, I’d likely ask to join the team for an internship.

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Hey @V2LenKagamine, welcome to our good and benevolent community. Nice list

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Welcome. Nice thought out list of ideas. I have a counter thought on a couple points, but feel you did a great job.

To me that’s like feeling every mmo out there is wrong that lets you have a rogue, healer, and tank. To me it’s kind of like saying that Monopoly doesn’t play like Simon Says, so therefore it isn’t right.

As far as chisels go. Once you learn (chisel a few things), then its like riding a bike. But I do agree with some sort of preview as you maybe use the mouse wheel or something to see what would change if you hit here or there.
On the other hand, if everything is explained and and told you what to do, what satisfaction is left when you don’t have anything to figure out or master? Then it could be a game flooded with 8 year olds and adult complexity would diminish. It takes people with critical thinking skills to tell themselves, “Hrm, I better consult my guild and or google it and figure this out, because I want it.”

I agree and disagree with tool experience. Making it just off of use or time of use, negates a build. But as you mentioned you don’t like specific builds, so that really all stems from that. So its a good idea for a different type of game. The kind of different I mean is like complete meta change back to the Monopoly versus Simon Says kind of different.

You made great points, and Welcome, and I hope I didn’t sound offensive. I struggle with what I mean as opposed to what I think it reads like syndrome.

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You make very valid points, I see your arguments against the EXP and skills system, however I don’t quite understand why you think adding a convenience to chisels would cause the games skill cap to fall,

as all it would do would be to make building less tedious, as you wouldn’t have to break a block every time you make a mistake chiseling. Its not like chiseling is exactly a puzzle that requires higher reasoning. However, making interesting builds with said chisels does. A more fluent experience with chisels would allow for more complex and interesting builds to be created more frequently,quicker,and easier.

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Enable a macro to chisel then undo chisel. Bring on the xp :heart_eyes: ! You had some really great points there :slight_smile:

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I was just doing a possible pro’s and con’s to my own words there. Sometimes when I think about things I pose a con right along with my own pros or agreements. Simply put it would be a balance of not too easy. but I did agree with a preview. Took me a while to get chisels down.

On the 8 year old thing I actually have a fear. I played Star Wars Galaxies when it was good. It had the BEST complex planet hopping resource hunting, crafting and economy I had ever seen in a game to date. Then Sony was like, “Lets make this appeal to a younger audience.” They then over simplified it, lost most professions, and turned it into a Wow knock off. The game instantly died over night. But the new kids loved how easy it was. I guess I was making a subconscious point with all that in the back of my mind.

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Dang, I was one of those kids. Sorry bud.

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:wink::smile:

I have left many games because they became easy to satisfy those who want to be great at everything with little or no effort and preferably instantly. Games are boring when they cater to that. Back when WoW started I played right on up through raising the level cap to 80. I kept getting my characters up to level cap then deleting them all and starting over since it’s incredibly boring once you are top level. They dumbed the whole game down and made it fast to level with little thought or effort required. I gave away all my level 80 items to a girl with cancer. I gave her my guild too and left never to go back. Similar happened in other games. Plus games went to this arena fighting where new players never play the game but only do the arena as they instantly have top level gear with zero effort. Other people buy top level characters and gear in games. Games then become just a collection of braggarts who never actually did anything to obtain their gear and level they love to show off. Incredibly boring. So far Boundless is great because it is challenging and you have to research and think. If they ever go to making things simple for wide appeal I’ll be gone. Keep it difficult. Don’t ever let one character be a master of everything as then there’s no need for cooperation or planning. So far they have it right. I totally agree with you @Zina !!!

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Its true. the core group of niche players you gain by keeping the game hard and somewhat complicated will stick with you far longer than the masses that will come and go under a simpler dumbed down version.

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Clever! But I feel like the devs would implement a system to avoid this, like the current system of breaking and placing the same block.

I more than understand the feeling of losing a loved game to devs who don’t listen to the community/ ruin their own game

I partly agree with you there, I do believe that my original idea for characters needs some refining, in which I will edit my post to include my new ideas and thanks for those who helped me.

@V2LenKagamine I agree! I didn’t mean to make it sound like it wasn’t a great feature because I think it would be very useful :slight_smile:

Edit: grammar

don’t re-edit the post. Its a progression of thoughts. It’s neat to see where one thinks of an idea, then either sticks to it, modifies thought based on input and even comes up with new idea to the same solution from a tribal gathering of thoughts.
No one is right or wrong, just a basis of opinions and ideas to tackle certain problems. Some solutions create other problems. It’s all a discovery.

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I would do it the Reddit way and add
“EDIT:…”
at the end!

Thing is, those of us who want to have more out of our characters, aren’t just asking for it to be handed to us. We are asking to be able to continue what we are already doing, but with the reward of being able to do even more later on once it’s earned. This isn’t simplifying the game in any way at all but instead expanding what each player would be capable of. Using WoW as an example for why this game should be limited in leveling is kinda laughable. I mean, it’s on its what expansion after 15ish years with lvl 110 being the current level cap and the whole game is focused around combat. Trade skills are only to advance your ability to Raid or PvP.

For some people the leveling experience is one of the most enjoyable parts of a game, for others it’s everything you can do once that journey is over. I quite enjoyed mine but have enjoyed everything I can do at level 50 much more then I did from level 1-40.

For those that enjoy the alt experience, great. I’m glad you do. I have nothing against your play style or the way you enjoy the game. I’m just happy you are enjoying it. But why is it wrong for the rest of us who would enjoy more from only 1 character in the wrong for even asking or insulted by being told we just want everything handed to us?

I’d rather have the difficulty come from the gameplay then what my character is limited by because I don’t enjoy redoing something I’ve already done.

It still takes a decent amount of people to spawn, let alone complete a meteor event.
No one person can run a shop alone and keep it stocked without the help of others.
Coal, ore, and other crafting mats don’t just appear in our inventories for free.

People would still have to play the game in order to advance. Limiting how they do it as restrictively as it currently is needs to be reworked/changed to suit all play styles.Not just one that essentially ignores the restriction by having multiple alts that can end up doing everything anyways.

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The thing is you already can be everything in one character. You just can’t be a master of everything all at the same time. You need to plan. With alts you simply switch to the specialty you need at the moment. With just one character you can reset your skill tree once per week and different weeks be different specialties. It’s a choice to be made. Either way you can do everything yourself and never interact with another player in the game. If you love one specialty then you can be like in real life and hire a builder when you need one and purchase whatever you can’t produce yourself. If you can put every skill on one character then there is no purpose in having more than one and anyone that chooses to specialize or have alts is at a disadvantage to those who are masters of everything and progress far faster due to only one character. It also would get very lonely very fast as you would never interact with anyone else as you have no need to buy anything or hire anyone as you can do it all yourself with no need for interaction ever. To me that is simply boring. Thats the problem in many games. You can do everything yourself and never have a need for another person. Boring. So, leave it the way it is and you can do it all with one character but resetting skills every week or month or whatever you like while keeping specialties for the many that prefer being specialists with one, two, or three characters. Put it all together and everyone just has one character and everyone ends up basically the same as in the end everyone has one character that has every skill.

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One other thing that has been overlooked in this conversation… Guilds are coming. Within a guild all specialties are available with a little interaction. If your character can do everything then why bother banding together in a guild? Guilds are for cooperation both enabling things like builders and miners being safe with hunters protecting them and in getting expert help in things you are not an expert in as well as large group activities.

Raids? Defeating Titans? Community builds? I always thought that main purpose of guilds is bring subordination in ranks)

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Half of those already suggested, other half simply has no sense. Such as “RGB colors blocks”- you never get such freedom in economic-driven MMO - all we have now has economical and gameplay-wise reasons (You need to visit other worlds, find, gather, or buy from another person). And i can only imagine how hellish this game would starts to look if we had such an option :upside_down_face:

“Death Penalty Adjustments” - You can use special skill to lower this penalty. And you can warp whatever you want from Sanctum. At least research subject before suggest?

“Mastery based on time of tool used” - This game already has fully grown leveling system via skills points. And here you are saying "guys, let’s wipe this nonsense and build Elder Scrolls? I, random guy, from forum can help you with that. Sure, why not? :grimacing: No offense, but this thinking pattern looks presumptuously and absurdly.

Only thing i can agree is question about separated professions, but clearly devs want good, working economic in this game. And for that they need market relations, some kind of “driver”. Looks like devs thinking hard about that right now (can be seen in 187), and what we have now obviously not final version. Maybe they make some adjustments, maybe not.

About water, farming, and “dungeons” (aka end-game content) devs talked many times. Again - research subject first, at least lil’ bit.

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This is where a lot of mmos splinter and it is key to be aware of what your audience is and who sticks around to play the game.

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