Right now there are only augments for weapons. none for tools. Also while the Augment system doesn’t have RNG involved. I don’t really see this as an alternative to the forging system due to the fact the Lv3 Augments are quite costly to make AND the Augment doesn’t last for the lifespan of the weapon. So to me the Augment system seems to be an extra deluxe cherry that you can put on top of a forged item for an even extra kick and not as an substitute.
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Augments don’t even last that long anyways. If I am not mistaken they have 20 uses and then they’re gone.
Even though this is a thread mostly about forging items, I will say this about Augments: none of them are worth making because if they’re considered to ammunition of sorts, it would make much more sense if a mass craft of any of them was larger than 50. Should be something like 250 or even 300. Have them smart stack higher than 100 per individual stack. It would even be awesome if you could attach the entire smart stack of the augments to the weapon as well instead of having to feed individual stacks of 20 or 100 or whatever into the weapon.
I do like the idea of having some sort of augmentation for tools and weapons just if you got more of them from a single mass craft.
Crowfall had this problem with their crafting system too. It’s got a lot of RNG elements to it but you’re capable of eliminating pretty much all of it through passive skill training. The game also throws buckets and barrels of crafting materials at you too in order to compensate for all the materials you’re going to burn through, lose from pvp, etc. All because the testers of that game provided sound evidence to the developers that getting even the basic of gear was too tiresome to do. So they fixed it.
I say all this with the notion that I want some sort of firearm weapons in this game that requires you to craft actual ammunition for in order for the weapon to fire. Slingbows feel too fantasy-ish to me. This is suppose to be a scifi game, right?
Augments last 125 shots right now. I love the forging system personally. I really like exploring different methods to get what I am after. If I dont have the mats for my normal methods, I play around with cheaper (riskier) ways to produce the effect I want. Cant wait until more effects are available. Maybe a single target item that targets a specific ability would help? Ie a gun for aoe only or damage only?
I too wish there was a simple tick-box to speed up the animations. Fast enough to still understand the process, but not soo fast you don’t have at least a second to fret about your RNG.
What if it reduces to 0% ? Or 1% ? That is the point, we have no way of knowing. We are all just guessing and making up percentages based on our subjective experiences.
Thus the “RNG” conversation gets conflated and tired.
“I made 10 of this, and didn’t get what i wanted 8 times! RNG RNG RNG”
Or could you have made it differently with one item, and had what you wanted 9 out of 10 times…or 10 out of 10 times. We don’t know.
It isn’t RNG, it is subjective reasoning, which is pointless and I don’t support. The game should tell us our chances if we have to take a chance.
There is a difference in experience of:
“I had a 99% chance and failed! That is crazy!”
vs
“I had some % chance, no idea what…and I failed! This is impossible!”
@Trundamere I think we discussed this in another thread and I think I totally agree with reworks and corrections. In fact, I think I agreed with many of your articulated points in that thread.
I want the game to show the chances.
Then we could have a debate about if those chances are too low, too high or not right.
But debating it now, is just guessing based on subjective data.
Again my 2c. I really do agree with the above person, their experience is because they can’t see the % of getting what they want.
If we were doing something that had a 0% chance of failure then after awhile that would start to feel like there is no RNG involved as the result would then become very repeatable, I don’t need to know the exact value.
Yes, I am sure there may be some people who might blame it on the RNG pre-maturely after just a handful of tries, but i am not one of those.
In the case of everyone else, no we don’t know. so therefore I can only speak from my experiences of what I have done when I have followed the same steps.
It is not subjective reasoning, when i can repeat the very same experiment many times and get different results. That is pretty objective in my book.
I do sequence A and I get result A
I do sequence A and I get result B
I do sequence A and I get result A
I do sequence A and I get result A
I do sequence A and I get result B
I do sequence A and I get result B
I do sequence A and I get result C
I do sequence A and I get result B
I do sequence A and I get result A
I do sequence A and I get result B
The bottom line is this.
I do agree with more Information and it might help in some cases. But it will not help with mine nor do I think this will remove RNG as I am not basing my claims at randomly throwing stuff and seeing what sticks. I am making logical and consistent choices of what I put into the machine and looking at the results. And when something is inconsistent for no reason at all. that is random and therefore in a computer game that is RNG.
And therefore because of all that, my current way of forging involves settling for an acceptable but lower grade item by limiting the major RNG factor to just one factor, and then using what I reported might be a bug to remove that one major RNG factor, leaving me with just the minnor RNG factors. and therefore as it stands right now yes i can get a functional item out of the system 100% of the time now days but it is not correct way to use the system in my book.
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What percentage chance did you have to get outcome A, B or C.
This is like saying:
When you flip a coin you always get heads! See:
Flip coin: heads
Flip coin: heads
Flip coin: heads
Flip coin: heads
Flip coin: heads
Flip coin: heads
That data is subjective…because it isn’t a part of the larger data set, and UNLIKE flipping a coin, we don’t know the % chance of success.
In the above example I could say “Yea, you got heads a lot, but you have a 50/50 shot and got lucky”
I can’t say that about your data. You did Sequence A…and got result B…but what % chance did the system have to give you system B? Did you beat the odds? were they even? Was it unlucky? could you have changed to sequence to improve the odds?
All those variables we can’t answer, because we don’t know. We can guess, but we don’t know.
And YET, despite not knowing, we keep trying to suggest fixes to the forge system. We can’t make suggestions that will truly fix it (or at least make it a better experience) without real data.
Therefor:
Give us the data (boundless dev’s please) so we can know the % of chance for a buff in combo with gums
Then we can use it, test it, see how it works
Make suggestions about improvement for the odds based on number of gums/effect of multiple gums/effects on buffs + new buffs with gums
Then the system would improve, it would ‘feel less RNG’ and we could make it better over time.
This is slightly different, because you only have one result as the out come and therefore you can make the argument for the law of large numbers in this case because the result seems to be consistent, however once you repeat the experiment to the point a NEW result gets added in. then we have something. which is the diff between my example and yours.
Futhermore your statement is designed to try to disprove RNG by saying I did X amount of coin flips and got the same result everytime
where as mine is designed to try to prove it by saying I did X amount of Experiments, I am starting to get inconsistent results that I can not expain . so things are a bit different
On your end more data may or may not make or break your case, where as on my end, more data will not make or break my case as i allready have enough data to get that different result at least once
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Allow me to restate.
It is pointless to talk about RNG, because we don’t know the %s, so show us the %s and then we can talk about RNG.
We can all agree that forging ‘feels bad’ when you don’t get what you want. We can all agree that it is difficult to get what you want when you start forging.
The differences we have is based on the approach to move forward.
Saying “Dev’s fix it” is hard…How would they get the data? When you make a forged item, how do they know it wasn’t what you wanted?
All the data will show them, is that we are making forged items…and the forums will tell a story of subjective opinions based on the experience…but maybe they are just unlucky?
The only way we can give quantifiable feedback is to have the numbers, which will increase player agency in the experience and allow us to provide real feedback.
The dev’s said they wanted the experience to be like backgammon. Even in Backgammon I know the odds, even if I don’t control the dice.
In the current system…I don’t know the odds and I don’t control the dice.
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Technically anything and everything (or each and everything to some people) is pointless if you want to take it that far, but yet here we.
The fact there are %s involved at all proves there is RNG effecting the system. Knowing them doesn’t change how the system works. You just now know how it works. and that will accelerate how fast people learn the system. but it doesn’t remove RNG because there are still some factors of RNG that can not be controlled at all even with gums or pastes.
I think when people say for the devs to fix it, they are not talking about adjusting the RNG values they are talking about removing the RNG. Which they won’t ever do this because they don’t want people to always get what they want. If anything I am expecting the devs to make it harder by them fixing the order of the AoE boon levels (Flipping level 4 with level 5), and adding more boons into the same gum at some point down the line.
And at the end of the day the devs cannot make everyone happy, some people like the system how it is, other people don’t like it, and of course there is everything in between. I just tolerate it because “adapt or die”
I’ve had this mood before 
I disagree.
If I roll a dice = RNG
But if after the dice lands, I can change it …that isn’t RNG
The system for allows for us to manipulate the boons/quirks with transmutes which will give us the ‘other boon’. Aside from 3 exceptions, the ‘other boon’ is likely what you wanted.
Between Gums/Transmutes, you can control your outcome. The factor then comes the resources you have (which with the current gum/invigorate/boost system you can have unlimited).
So that means we have Control with limited resources.
So how do we use that? Well that depends on the %, so we can calculate our use of resources.
I don’t care that when you put a pure boon in that it gives you some random result. I don’t care about that RNG…because after, I can boon transmute it to what I want.
The die rolled a 6, I can change it to a 4.
Between Gums and Transmutes you can control the outcome.
But what number of gums? At what point is it worth it? How much influence is % based of the system and how much is luck?
We don’t know.
That is why I want the %s to be a part of the system so we can make more useful feedback and improve the process.
Also, do you think the two of us just went on the longest back and forth on this forum without it being flagged or us getting into a fight?
Lets admit it 
we are awesome for that. hehe
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You can re roll the dice using transmutes, you can’t just set it to what you would like. The system is still based on RNG. and if/when they add more boons into the same gum then using transmutes will become less likely to work correctly because we are also limited with how many times we can tamper with the item.
also for a lot of people i would hazard to guess that the boon transmute is about as rare as a unicorn. so they are not aware of it. or how it works.
Some people don’t play well and others get worn out by my line of debating and they resort to taking it personally and reacting as such.
Technically.
I disagree that it matters, but technically by definition of RNG, yes.
Just because its hard at first isnt a good reason to change it, challenge is a good thing. My first forge i didnt understand it, made a copper axe that had -400 damage and took 5 shots on foliage on T1s. Id seen the kind of things others were producing and assumed maybe i had some things to learn, rather than the system is broken.
I currently have about 50 items in my shop, maybe 3 have defects, and maybe 5 weren’t really what i was aiming for.
Yes, i cancel forges a bit when theyre not working out. I choose to waste the mats to get the results im after. But its a choice, and that is good. Would be boring if it was the same every time. You cant follow the exact same recipe every time and expect the same results, you have to understand the mechanics and adapt and change to what is happening.
I said it above, without rng its just crafting, which is boring. Its like saying i dont really like mining, so the game should be creative mode so i can get gems easier. Or make them spawn them in the same location every time so theres no rng on which block i hit. That is no challenge and would get boring very quickly.
The ‘its too hard for me so it needs to change’ seems to happen a lot on this forum. Its not the game/system if its working for other people. Same as everything in life, effort and practice is all you need to start seeing better results.
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but its not hard cuz we need to git gud its hard cuz a line of code is rolling the dice on if we get the positive outcome or not yea skill can be used to help tip it to one side but its still being at the mercy of the RNG machine
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Its really not. See all the people above who its working fine for? Surely we cant all just be lucky.
But each to their own. I pay a mechanic to fix my car cause i cant be bothered learning/doing it.
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why does there need to be an RNG element to the forging system?, why not just remove the RNG and have a direct non-rng system like the majority of other games that have crafting and enchanting systems.
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Cause then its just crafting. If you want set results on hammer stats, craft a hammer.
Problem solved.
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Forged or not it is still a hammer, so remove the rng and the problem is solved. No one is asking here for the recipe to be made easier. They are asking for the randomness to be removed. Especially when using expensive ingredients
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Yeah i do feel that it will be better to remove the rng in same boon category.
For example under special gum for hammer you get auto harvest or aoe.
I suggest release more gum to support each of boon effect.
Right now it’s not only make forge system harder also more complicated about the method choice.
I know some people really enjoy this process of hitting rng.
But it’s also make new players afraid and hard to involve to this fun system.
I find out every time when i have to explain forge system to new players it’s really difficult to do.
I always have to tell them like this:
- You need a max power setup for Forge machine
- Enough Power to craft forge ingredients
- A forger character with correct build
- A high level hunter character to gather all the mats to craft forge ingredients
- A crafter ready to craft all the ingredients
After all these done, i need to explain to them how the forge system work.
At the last step need to explain to them the forge method we use to forge the best tools.
I mean i don’t feel forge need to be more easier to involve because i know it’s end game system.
But I wish it can be more easier for new players to understand the working process.
I believe if you guys remove the RNG from forge system can be less complicated to understand.
I forged a lot when the forge system just released, but now i do feel it have really complicated steps requirements. This why i avoid to forge for couple months already.
I know how to forge a good gear, but just not enjoy this content anymore.
And who knows when is next time i need to switch to new method again
(The meta forge method changes 3 times already because you guys keep modifying the ingredients)
Couple things i do feel this game really need to improve.
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A lot of things are very complicated for new players to understand. I get this base on the experience from new players i helped before.
Some of them are very smart, so they get it really fast, some of them struggle in those setup for long time and quit. These special setup make boundless unique, but it’s hard for new players to really enjoy it. For them this game basically just a good graphic minecraft not boundless. I think its important to at least make new players understand how the system work. For end game contend it can be harder creature for mats gathering. But anything involve to system should be easier to understand. -
The crafting time really need to reduce. I don’t see any points for people to wait such long time to craft the things they need. Some people may say, yeah its fine you can do other contents while you are waiting the craft time. However, not many people have same time to play this game. For people who have limit time to play this game means they can’t play the contents they want to do in the limit time they have. It’s bad experience for gaming i think.
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The econ really need to improve, a lot of things lose their value base on current market.
I think i explained enough in other thread before, so i just point out here.
At the end, this is the business you guys have, for what we can do is to share what we think can bring this game to better shape.
Base on my observation by hosting a large city, I know a lot of new players they can’t stay in this game for long run, its more like 60 -80% quit before they reach to end game. For the small population game like boundless i think its kind of a bad thing. I think you guys have data to see if my point is real.
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