Prestige

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I’m still new to the whole prestige system, but I’ve been doing some digging with the help of @Dzchan94 and @Spoygg, and we’ve sort of figured out at least some aspects of how the algorithm works, though obviously not entirely.

It’s safe to say though that certain blocks are spammable to a certain extend - and will grant you high amounts prestige. Gem Blocks are one of such blocks, and on the flip-side; blocks like natural wood, sand and rock builds won’t net you a whole lot of prestige, so correct me if I’m wrong, but settlements made from expensive materials will be considered capitals over say examples like underground rock settlements, forest settlements or ancient builds made from sand and stone?

If my informed assumption here about the algorithm is correct, a giant world tree, reaching to the heights of 256, with hanging homes made of wood and leaves, would add almost nothing to prestige when weighed against say a tower of gem blocks.

I’m not for abolishing the current prestige system, but I would like to offer an addition;

Tribute

Players could earn ‘tribute’ by simply playing the game (like experience) - a fixed amount over a period of time. And would be able to spend this ‘tribute’ as they would ‘likes’ on a forum (or social media) They’d simply step onto a beacon they like the look of, and /praise or whatever to add their stamp of approval to a build.

Players wouldn’t be allowed to /praise their own creations, and they’d be rewarded small amounts of experience for spending these points (to incentivise it) - you could even implement quests to ‘praise’ a certain amount of builds.

Players would also have a fixed amount per week or month, to stop them from just praising everything they see.

Tribute (or praise or whatever) would add to a builds prestige value, along with the current system.

Just my rambling thoughts as usual. Any feed-back or ideas would be welcome - along with any clarification or insight from the developers on future plans for the prestige system; @luke-turbulenz, @james

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I would prefer a system where you could improve the rating of the block via crafting. That way you bring crafters into the mix and they become highly sought after if you want a wooden building with a high prestige rating.

Praising can become a popularity contest and people will start lobbying for votes and offering free gifts in return for votes even if their build is ugly.

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Thanks for replying @luke-turbulenz. I see your point with ‘lobbying for votes’ as you put it, but any algorithm you put in place will be exploitable. It will only be a matter of time before people figure out the ‘optimal’ way to build something in order to gain prestige; and if the optimal method doesn’t include tree trunks, leaves, growth or what-not - then some people will be dissuaded from building certain structures (or using certain blocks)

I personally think the only way you can judge the aesthetic value of a build is through player opinion and input. Unless you’re creating some sort of artificial intelligence over there at Wonderstruck (and I don’t doubt your abilities) an algorithm will never be able to judge the greatness of a build - the scale perhaps, or value of individual blocks, but not how it is viewed by players.

Just my thoughts. I see issues with both systems, but I’d rather the value of a city be determined by players, opposed to by a fixed and ultimately exploitable system.

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The option to improve blocks, via crafting would mean they all have the same prestige rating. The current system is to prevent people from just filling a plot with the same block and instantly having the best prestige, and to reward those who have invested time and skill in making the best items in the game.

There will be a certain amount of cat and mousing on this but it does seem like the system we have is going in the right direction, with maybe a few more additions and tweaking.

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So if I’m to understand your proposed system correctly, a piece of wood could eventually have the same prestige value as a gem block? Is that what you’re saying?

If so I’m all for that.

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It’s just a thought on how this can be made fairer for players who want to build with other blocks and not forced to use Gems.

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I see you have a pretty hefty task on your hands, and I’m sure you’ve gone through it all. I’m just throwing out some ideas.

I’d still have faith in the community as a whole not to have their ‘votes’ bought and cast on ‘ugly builds’. No amount of resources would be enough to dictate where I’d spend mine (as anecdotal as that is), and I certainly wouldn’t praise an ugly build if I didn’t like the look of it. I don’t speak for the community, but I can certainly attest to the integrity of a large bunch of players playing at the moment.

Besides, if I’m to understand your concerns rightly - these owners of ‘ugly builds’ would have to give away a LOT of free stuff in order to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I suppose the only other issue there would be YouTube personalities getting votes for their builds from their acolytes?

I think you’re right in saying that my proposed solution would eventually turn into a popularity contest, but isn’t that what prestige is? People sharing admiration for builds and builders?

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Yes, admiring a build not the player. :wink:

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With a set system, admiration for builds won’t count for anything. Only the algorithm would dictate quality.

For instance, a huge sign made out of fully upgraded blocks, spanning the vastness of the world, seen from the far reaches of space, would be considered a monumental build of extreme prestige! I can see it now;

#LUKE TURBULENZ SUCKS

:wink:

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Before I’m taken the wrong way (as sarcasm doesn’t always track well on forums) I meant that in the best possible way. It’s all well meaning banter.

What I’m basically trying to say is that a ‘luke turbulenz sucks’ sign, or a giant phallic statue, or swastika could potentially become the most ‘prestigious’ build going, even though nobody in the community would agree with it.

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While I understand that harder to craft or obtain blocks would indeed require for them to have a higher base prestige attached to them, to reward the effort and time dedicated to the players, it also begs the question, how to make it fair compared to other blocks.

This is a matter of subjectiveness, but gems in abundance, more than making a build nicer or accentuating some features, takes away from the build as a whole and brings the amazement at how much time he’s spend to earn something or do something. Don’t get me wrong, effort and nice looking shiny things, will always be recognized, take a look at rare crafted sets of armor in other games, sometimes they’re mere cosmetic items, but the grind alone generates praise, but that’s when the problem comes along, how “nice” are these highly prestigious builds are? I know this is an entirely subjective manner.

Take for instance the 7 wonders of the world, many will praise their beauty and architectural prowess, are they made out of the most rare materials, are they appreciated and liked by everyone. The simple answer is no. And what I’m trying to say, it’s gonna be super hard to correlate “beautiful” builds to high prestige (all a matter of opinion), I wouldn’t want to be in the dev shoes right now.

There’s a beauty to modesty and minimalistic designs, not all builds have to use gems or gleam to make them look nice, this is pretty biased, but a material so beautiful in the game like wood, can’t go without being used in a build, and I use it a lot. Will I stop building how I see things to be nicer, to get a little more prestige? No I won’t, but nobody is stopping someone from doing so.

The thing is that for every system you make, there’s gonna be people exploiting the system and looking at ways to take advantage, there’s people who enjoy doing it. What it all comes to, is how important is prestige really is, in the big scope of things, what would a capital city give me, what does the major position give me? I know we’re pretty annoying by commenting on things not yet completed and still in development like this, but we can only offer our perspectives on things we are experiencing or know about. How important prestige will be, will help determine how important it is for ways to get prestige in your favor.

Just to provide a simple example, and not to put harm in anyone, let’s look at Dragons Watch, Pharoah is the major of the town, with more than double the prestige than mine, does his build looks cool and glorious? It does. My build coming at second place, which for many represent the town, is made of simple decorative, timber and refined blocks. It holds less than the 1st position. For the eyes of many, that sculpture represents the town and is the center point of it, but it’s not the most prestigious one.

So I think prestige has a place, but deciding on the sole leader of a settlement based on it, doesn’t sit well with me. Maybe a multiple role ecosystem, with the founder having some degree of decision and maybe other roles added, depending on how big a settlement is.

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Player will for certain be reported and deal with after the fact, but it will leave a bad taste in our mouths, if that were to happen.

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There are also grey areas, not in direct violation of any rules in place, but made in bad taste non the less.

I think you need people to step in a say (with their vote or lack there of) ‘that’s not good’

Subjectivity is the missing factor.

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What about getting some prestige from visits? So bind it with footfall - you are being rewarded for having either a nice or interesting build that people want to see, or an important spot like a good shop that brings customers. It could be a nice addition to block-based prestige.

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Yeah, I was thinking also that age of build should impact prestige :slight_smile: That would solve somewhat issue where players put a lot of effort in bringing up a city and than some random guys come and build straightforward ugly gleam/gem whatever high prestige mat he wants to exploit and becomes mayor over night :smiley: hahaha

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One more idea, if high prestige blocks are put in close distance after certain threshold they start less and less affecting the prestige. Call it a Spoygg’s constant :wink:

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As a crafter, this is beautiful. You, as a builder, want to make your building look any way you want. You don’t want to be forced to make choices you deem not aesthetically pleasing just to get a higher prestige. The idea of prestige should be about the size of the build and the quality of the materials used. Having the ability to craft higher prestige versions of wood allows the builder to follow their aesthetics while also having to spend a certain amount of cost in the build. Refined stones take 8 stones each to make. Bricks take 6 blocks and spark. If there was a wood block that had the same kinds of costs, it should hold the same kind of prestige.

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(To continue the serious part of this discussion)

FYI - I don’t think this would be the case, because these beacons would be flagged and reported by players in game, we would review them, and then they would be instantly regen’d into oblivion.

From my experience on the forum, community members are quick and consistent in flagging posts. You may be interested to hear that if a post is flagged as abusive (which is extremely rare) then it’s normally flagged by a few members simultaneous, ie. the community consensus is that it’s abusive rather than just individuals. This makes moderation much easier.

(Obviously a “luke turbulenz sucks” sign should be lauded and not torn down.)

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Get your gem blocks team. I have a new project!

I am a little sceptical about the proposed system. I’d personally like the value of a city or build to be determined by the community, not by the value of certain blocks.

Not only does it put an emphasis on bigger always being better, but also allows ugly builds to be considered prestigious.

Who decides what’s good and what’s ugly? Well that’s subjective, and should be decided - I feel - by the community.

Just my two cents, though I don’t want to beat a dead horse. I’ve made my case and will stand by whatever route you decide to take!

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I have a question which relates to this topic, but with regards to Prestige and Clans/Guilds …

Within a clan/guild, I would assume that the proposed hierarchy still stands with regards to having a leader and assigned roles for officers etc. How does this work with the prestige rankings?

Is prestige still calculated individually and attributable to each player on their own, or does the clan get counted as a whole, allowing them to maintain their preexisting leadership hierarchy? So if that clan has the highest prestige on a world, would their leader then become the “High Oort” of the world, regardless of who within the clan had the highest prestige?

Also…

I’d love to see some decorative carved wood blocks! :heart_eyes:

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