Progression & Experience Gaining Changes

progression
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#1

Update 2 - Topic is closed. For further news please go to:

Hey everyone!

A double whammy this week, with @olliepurkiss post about Skill Trees and now a post about the progression changes we plan to make.

We’ve been reviewing the current system and discussing potential solutions to ensure we deliver a fair and fun system. So here’s some some information about our latest plans for progression and experience gaining!

One of the major areas we are looking at changing is how you gain experience. Currently, you only gain experience for performing an action in a particular area. For example, when you hit a block you get mining experience points, when you craft an item you get crafting experience and so on. This has been fine for now, but there are a lot of actions players perform in the game which do not give you any experience and this has been mentioned on the forums a lot. The system doesn’t scale either so everything gives you the same amount of experience despite the difficulty and time it takes to get or make an item. We can also see players are finding ways to game the current system and speed up how fast they level, which is something we want to resolve.

In addition to the actions we currently have we also plan to add even more actions such as, healing, defending and exploring and we would need new XP earning events for those actions. Once those systems are added a complex system would need to be in place to track combat and handle players exploiting it. Ideally, we would want combat experience to be distributed fairly between who’s in the fight, what they did in the fight and so on. This logic doesn’t apply to other areas of the game and we would need different systems to handle gaining experience and for it to scale when you go exploring, mining, crafting, building and trading.

Attempting to implement this system is a huge undertaking and if we pursued it we would risk losing or poorly implementing other areas in the game. For this reason, we’re planning to drop the idea of gaining experience based on the actions you perform and instead only award experience when you complete an objective.

Objectives will essentially be a task list and you can go out and complete these at your leisure to earn experience and coin. The objectives will be broken up into multiple categories so you can complete ones you care about and ignore the ones which do not apply to your character. There will also be random daily and weekly objectives which will give you more experience and coin for completing them, so there should always be plenty to do.

The other area we are looking at changing is the gaining experience for multiple professions. This does not mean you won’t be able to specialise in a role, you’ll still be able to spend your skill points in areas relevant to how you want to build your character. However, we are not tracking the experience you gain and categorising it as a miner, crafter, etc. Instead, we are just tracking one single overall experience level.

The reason for this change is partially down to the removal of experience gaining per action, but it is to remove a particular flaw in which you had to do everything in order to get all the skills points and beacon plots, even if you have no interested in that area of the game. So if you were interested in only crafting, you had to go out and build, mine, trade, fight and so on just to get every upgrade possible, which didn’t seem right.

It also to makes it easier for players to understand and see how powerful a player is and understand what area they are specialising in. Right now, you could be level 50 in every profession but when you add skills to the system a level 50 miner doesn’t mean your skills are best suited as a miner, as you might have invested all your skills into crafting abilities but your crafting level is level 1.

So instead of looking at a player and seeing they are level 50 in this and 7 in that, then guessing where they invested their points. You’ll see the character is level 50 and then look at their profile screen to see their skill tree and where they’ve invested their points.

Update 1
Understandably, more information has been requested. Particularly about what the objectives will be like and how they will work. So here’s a brief overview with some examples.

All players will have an Objective list and they can activate 5 at any time. Once the objective is active it will start tracking what the player is doing and will mark as complete when the player fulfils the criteria. You don’t need to turn it in, it just completes and you get the coin and exp.

Initially objectives will be tutorials and they’ll teach the player about the game and the various mechanics. For example, an Explorer has an objective to build a warp and travel to another world and they’ll have another objective to discover 10 regions on a world. It’s up to the player to choose what they want to track and complete from the list. The important thing here is that the objective will teach you about what you are doing and explain how it works.

As you complete objectives more are unlocked and reveal more about the game and offers insight about how you can complete the tasks, where you can find certain resources or how you craft certain items.

We’re aiming for 50+ objectives per area (crafter, miner, etc) which you only need to complete once. They are currently not planned to be repeatable but this is subject for debate. However, you only need to complete two or three professions to reach the level cap.

Repeatable tasks will mostly be for daily and weekly tasks which will have bigger rewards.

As always, thoughts and comments are welcomed.


Progression system
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#2

As someone who likes to bumble around doing multiple things depending on my mood I’m looking forward to it, right now you are really stuck once you get level 50 miner to level up other things easily. Currently you’re forced into activities you may not like, for example a builder made to go and farm mobs for hours just to get one more plot to get back to building.

I really don’t think anyone’s going to be able to give proper feedback until we see it in action in the game and see how it works during our daily routine.


#3

Personally, I really don’t like this change. I hate being forced to do tasks/quests and if that’s the only way to earn experience, that is unacceptable. Dailies and weeklies just forces what you must do with your in game time.

I will have to think about alternatives, but I don’t have any ideas right now. Being forced to do tasks and objectives just to advance is a poor experience system. Even though the current system is lacking as well, it is better than the proposed system in my opinion.


#4

I have to say I’m not keen on the idea of experience only from completing objectives presented to me by the game, although as AnnieGYG mentioned, it’s hard to say for sure until it’s ingame and we can try it. I’m just not for anything that trys to direct my path too much, free-form game play is always preferred for me.


#5

Yeah, I’ve been placing leaves, chopping them down, rinse and repeat to up my builder level to 18, chopping whole trees, manually crafting timber, then slabs and placing then again, to reach 9 crafter. Just for those sacred plots :smile:

Am I correct to assume, that while a specialist may have all the required exp and coin from those objectives to progress and not feel stuck, so they don’t have to rely in objectives they might not like. But also rewarding the generalists you’re trying to promote, since they have more objectives to complete and thus more exp and coin to get.

In short, are we gonna get unlimited objectives in a specific area, like gather 100 stone, and you can repeat it as many times as you like, or there’ll be a limited list with 1000 objectives for miner type objectives, and once you’re done with them you don’t have more of those, or wait for them to reappear. I suppose daily and weekly objectives would help with that.

This I love, it rewards both generalists and specialists the same way, and doesn’t get you to do one task, if you don’t want to. Since there’s no benefit in doing something you don’t like versus something you like.


#6

It might benefit the conversation if we could get a list of example objectives.


#7

In regards to objectives limiting gameplay and free form play styles, I believe any feature in the game, somehow or another limits it, to a minor or major state.

I think the best way for objectives to work, is if they’re spammable, meaning that you can do it without really investing into it. What I’m trying to say, let’s say you get about 20 exp for mining 5 blocks, the objective would be mine 5 blocks and get 20 exp. It wouldn’t be a huge ordeal, so you don’t feel obligated to mine 20 more minutes to get the exp assigned to 1000 blocks, it would just mean, you wouldn’t want to do it from the get go, since it means a huge task.

Keeping it to focused and small objectives means you could do 200 times the mine 5 blocks and get the same exp as to do one objective of 1000 blocks, both reward the same exp, but one doesn’t interfere with gameplay as much.

Some people can mine or build for hours and not get tired, some do lapses of 10 to 15 mins, I think both should get exp for that in that time, but in order to do that, they need to be able to complete an objective in that time frame, the exp growth would be proportional and not exponential.

Additionally, we could have global objectives, meaning for those specializing in one task, the constant grind and labor they put into mastering their craft will be rewarded with additional exp


#8

Maybe tasks could be means of a guideline for the player. Accidentally achieving a task grants you experience as well as actively pursuing them. I’m not familiar with daily or weekly tasks in mmos although they seem to be almost standard.
It probably would also mean a lot of work creating tasks, like make a looping around a pillar with your grapplehook, or hunt three lifestock in between 15 minutes. So a task also could function as helpful example what you can do in the world, if one would run out of ideas.


#9

I have to say this makes me slightly nervous. Of course, we’ll have to see how it’s implemented but I love the current freedom that we have to play how we want to play. The addition of dailies and weeklies is awesome as an optional activity, but it seems as if they will become a necessity for leveling, which makes me cringe a little as it brings back Destiny memories of doing the same things over and over and over. I have limited time to play most times I get on and I’d hate to feel like I HAVE to use that time to complete tasks in order to not “fall behind” as it were. I hope this comes across as respectful as I intend it to. As always, thank you for being open with us and sharing what the devs are thinking.


#10

I don’t think anyone’s forcing people to do objectives - just do what you enjoy doing and I am sure some objectives will be completed automatically without you thinking about them.

However for someone like me that spends a lot of time in game, dislikes building, and is looking to spend my time doing a little of everything then you’d probably be correct that I’d complete more objectives than you.

Really we can’t say until we know how it works properly in game, If the objectives work on a loop like DZChan asked then perhaps you can build a house while I do 10 other things and we’d get the same amount completed?


#11

This would be fine with me, for a form of tutorial or guidance. Not sure as the only way to gain experience though.


#12

and

But this isn’t the proposed system. You’re not forced to do anything. If anything it’s the opposite.

You choose which objectives to enable from the available objectives. If you want to go hunting, enable a hunting themed objective. If you want to go mining, enable a mining themed objective.

The whole point of this system is to give you control over what you want to do.

There will always be a collection of objectives to pick from. You can enable upto (I think) 5 objectives at once. And then work towards these.

The objectives can vary from extremely generic: “Mine any 5 blocks”, to extremely defined: “Travel to Therka and mine 5 Ancient Corruption from the base of a glacier”.


#13

Ah! Well then, very good! Please proceed! :wink: Thanks for the clarification! Player control is always best IMHO. :grin:


#14

That clears it up a lot actually. :grinning: I was under the impression the tasks were decided for you.


#15

Can I just say I’m loving the way things are getting approached by, by the devs?


#16

That was all that was needed to completely remove all fears. Thank you.


#17

Great job so far! :sunglasses: IMO, when done right, these dev/community collaborations, aka EA game, are very good for the game’s outcome! Might I also add I love this forum design and layout!


#18

Updated original post with some details based on the feedback so far.


#19

(The following is unsanctioned by the designers and reflects my personal opinion.)

My ambition is to deliver Objectives across the following groups:

  1. Tutorial style - teach players all the systems in the game.
  2. Coverage - if you follow all the objectives you’ll “do everything” the game has to offer: craft all items, build all items, mine all block types, kill all creatures, forge all enhancements, build portals, warps, visit all worlds, find all locations, etc.
  3. Missions - a collection of hybrid actions - “travel to world A, find biome B, and kill / collect / harvest C”. Longer form adventure style.
  4. Worker - objectives that complement standard play: mine, craft, explore, travel, defeat, build, etc, because I’m doing this stuff already and I want to generate experience + coin.

Whilst the objectives are still opt-in, they help and encourage you to do thing that you might normally not have done.


#20

After reading the update 1, I can’t see how any style of play will be blocked from existance, it’s a very open system and very rewarding in my opinion, it’s nice that you took the chance to explain things by the objectives, little by little so we don’t get overload with information.

Now we just need to be smart with objectives, so we can kill two birds with one stone. Or maybe three? :smile: