I disagree. Everyone would be on the same even level playing field. Everyone could mass those resources if they chose to do so. If they did that, then those prices wouldn’t jump as badly because many would anticipate the hike and try to profit at the jump. Smart people would buy up the inventory and then wait to resale down the road when the market stabilizes and they deem the ROI is worth cashing in on.
Regardless of which side of this you personally fall on, I think it’s maybe telling about a greater issue in the system if there is concern that making relatively small changes to recipes, in any direction, is cause for concern that the economy is going to go off the rails.
Unfortunately, we’re speaking in hypotheticals on a player based economy. None of us are wise enough to predict what will really happen and all the permutations of any one specific nerf or buff especially in a young game as this. And honestly, people overreact around here a bit too much. Excuse me while I duck.
But the 201 changeling was announced after server went down. The nerfs were still missing, but I have every reason to believe it was genuinely a mistake and not maliciousness. Annoying but mistake.
Case with last patch was a bit different because missing nerf was missing from patch notes published day earlier.
Today, since notes was released after servers went down, they gained nothing by not releasing nerf in patch notes.
I’ll summarize the recipe change for you:
Boon 1 & 2 made more difficult to craft than Boon 3.
Farm more shimmering orbs instead.
Fantastic patch! Love the changes except this one:
Added an animation to the health bar to show how long a creature will take to die once it has lost all health (due to network latency). You need to pay attention to a dangerous creature until the server says the creature is defeated.
Don’t get me wrong: this is a “positive” change but it’s a band-aid on a bigger problem. When a creature takes that final hit, it needs to be dead instantly like every other MMO on the planet.
As a counter point, WoW publishes specific recipe changes in detail. Some players certainly use these notes to their advantage and stockpile or dump supply.
However, that would all happen even if the changes were hidden. Fewer players would be able to benefit from it (less time to learn about and act on the changes).
Prices jump around in both cases (we can’t expect them to stay steady)
There’s some of that, but it isn’t everyone “whining”.
Process broken or not, I don’t really have an opinion - I’m a dev and I know things slip through release notes. It’s the action not the notification that bothers me. The general tone of increasing player effort for same or less reward over many updates now.
This place would be worse for the game if it was only a positive echo chamber.
I don’t feel insulted, I was using it to make a point. Your post was less helpful in terms of understanding impact of game changes on players than the “whining” you complained about.
Adding effort, one spitter eye or not, to an already grindy game, imo, is bad. But it’s subjective. Which is why we’re all meant to feed back on changes. Rather than being rude about others who are feeding back.
Is it really a hypothetical when we have historic context to base the concern on?
Yes it’s future speculating but given how the playerbase has reacted to changes and prices things accordingly, it stands to reason that although a current hypothetical, it would be proven out as continuing fact based analysis.
And is it really speculation if you do it and you know others that do it, and will continue to do it? Calling it speculation/hypothetical isn’t really a good faith argument point given we have historical context.
As far as overacting, yea that’s gonna happen when you have a large amount of people already unhappy with the games progress. It doesn’t touch the insanity on Eve forums though. I’ll just say Mintchip and leave it at that.
How or why doses this keep happening?
Are they last minute changes you add in right before the patch drops?
Doses your office have little or no form of change control? which I feel is an extremely important process to have in regards to anything network based or haves production value on the IT side of things.
If there is change control, is the link between the people who deal with that and the person posting the patch notes weak enought that communication failures still happen?
Or is there no form of change control and the coding of the game is done in a more informal and/or unsystematic way that things can get coded into the game by one person and no one else is aware of it?
Or is this situation a bit more purposeful. Such that. you do not want the player base to see the changes to crafting before hand, and then try to use the time between the release of the notes and when the patch drops, to try to get the absolute most out of what may or may not be nerfed in terms of crafting before it is nerfed?
And for the ones who may not know what Change control is.
“Change control is a systematic approach to managing all changes made to a product or system. The purpose is to ensure that no unnecessary changes are made, that all changes are documented, that services are not unnecessarily disrupted and that resources are used efficiently.”
It’s simple, happens every time. Dev do change, commit them. Someone does code review, see changes, comment and approve code, because technically code is good. In Pull Request, or whatever they do, of given change there is an info what was changed. It’s also seen in commit message. But dev forget to mark/write whatever that this was changed/fixed/whatever in a project management tool (like Jira), well ■■■■… we’re not robots, I forget to do that all the time. Meanwhile commits before going to production/master/whatever gets squished, and someone forgets to add this change to message of the commit that has all the changes. Then patch notes are compiled from project management tool, cross checked with a production branch commit messages… something slips by unnoticed, and we give hard time to @Steggs101. And we should give him hard time, after all he is the last one to blame
To be honest, because of circumstances, one of app in my company is developed solely by me, and frankly I don’t remember all the changes I did last week, and some minor things (some mayor too) goes undocumented ¯_(ツ)_/¯
^ this i get the devs want to make people use the market and trade etc but stop nerfing the game to force it! im starting to see more and more streamers jump ship and telling there twitch viewers the game is garbage we just had a massive bomb mineing nerf this new compound one could have waited till they got there data back and fixed the changes to bomb mineing to ease it. waiting on patch 202 when they say that you now need simmering orbs to refine wood and stone cuz that is “unblanced”.
i got a feeling after this patch the boundless section on twitch is going to be a wasteland
It had 4 viewers today.
With strict change control, Devs would not allowed to try to change something with out documenting it 1st. While may be extremely annoying, it might reduce this problem.
I am not a programmer and therefore do not understand how the system works /should work / can work, I used to be a network admin and therefore my views are from that standpoint and may or may not be compatible with the programming side of things.
Whenever I wanted to or needed to alter anything at all on some systems, I had to document what I wanted to change, Why i wanted to change it or why it was needed to be changed, have it approved, and only then I was allowed to try make the change. and hope that my changes don’t create another problem and then I myself become marked as “high risk”
I think it is pretty obvious that there was not complete rigor across the whole stack as well as some break down of communication and transparency across the development teams. I do not know if the extent of the change control model but there was a structure to manage release cycles and the changes that were part of it.
As mentioned by Steggs:
This should help people provide better quality notes by the developer and provide a location for those creating the patch notes to have more information of what changed.
So clearly the developers are trying to solve some of the key issues we have seen happen recently and people just need to give them some time to fix this. Processes break and models of development need to change as you move through the life cycle of a product. In many situations you will always hit speed bumps.
I have seen a few posts recently that show that those players just need to reset some expectations in certain areas. Most are using some childish threat and warning to try to force change instead of providing good feedback that gives a conducive path for change.
While I agree having notes of recipe changes is helpful it isn’t a critical need because a person can clearly go see what is needed for the recipe at the time they want to use it. Of course it is better service to put it in one place and I don’t think anyone likes not having the developers hit the mark this time… But we should be patient and hopefully they can put the new process in place soon to allow us to have that.
Instead of nerfing Pure Boon Compound, why not buff Unstable and Imperfect?
They can share their views but for many people you don’t keep making things more powerful…
You have to have a baseline and try to balance off of that. Forge things are already a big buff to the whole game, so making things even more powerful will overbalance the game in a direction that can go bad.
I think if we understood their baselines we wouldn’t be as bothered with buff/nerfs.
Popping back in because I’ve said how i feel about what i see as the negatives. I’ll continue to voice my opinion whether its wrong or right because thats how I am when I’m passionate about something lol
With that being said, this patch had numerous positives. More positives than negative. Of course we focus on the negatives more because thats the easiest to pinpoint. Great job devs. I’m still here and look forward to the future.
I don’t want to drag the conversation downhill, but I’m just going to point out I am currently a very unhappy customer.
Please document your changes properly.
Also changing recipes, seemingly randomly without any input or community discussion or even general philosophy is very unprofessional when I’m comparing it similar MMOs.
Virtually overnight, my fledgling forging business has been wiped out. Something that I’ve spent dozens of hours working on.
I may be able to work out a new model, who knows, but this was out of the blue and without warning.