Seeing both sides of a coin

General
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I have seen lately some threads of players complaining about how they were treated by others. This is NOT about those specific incidents, or whose side I am on, but the fairness of how we see it.

Editing: This does not excuse the breaking of the rules, this is outside the area of saying the players names, insulting words, accusing them of lying or others against the COC. Just wanted to make that clear, if either one is doing that it is totally, completely Unacceptable, no matter who is right.

My son pointed out to me once that when I see or read something of how unfair someone is treated I jump to the belief that they are telling the truth. But, I don’t know all the facts and without knowing both sides, and the real truth of what is going on, not just that person’s version but both sides and removing the emotional aspects there is no way I can make a good judgement call on who is wrong an who is right.

We Here All Need to Step Back and See that the OP is Giving Only Their Side before we go and say, how unfair that person is, we need to do this or that.
A player who has a beef with someone will automatically make themselves look like the victim and the one who they are complaining about as the awful, mean, vicious player who is out to get them.
Sometimes it is true, other times it isn’t and until we know it all we need to stop jumping to conclusions that the OP is telling the truth and that the person being complained about is a jerk.

This isn’t because of a recent incident, but something that I have seen a lot since I joined the forum and it is getting worse. Who is blocking who, who is trying to destroy another player, who is griefing who and why. We don’t know all the facts.

We need to step back, give the benefit of the doubt. Here in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. We should have the same attitude here, no matter what country we are from.

(Removed the incident that I stated of how a co-worker of my husband was doing something that was harmful to children and he was seen as a great person, no one believed them until he confessed.)

These incidents are not as serious, as horrendous, but the same aspect of we don’t know who is telling the truth until all the facts are out, and that is for the developers to decide, not us. Don’t pass judgement until you know more, Please. Don’t go and state that so and so is not a nice person until you know positively they aren’t. Don’t ruin a persons income, how they are seen by others until you know for a fact they have done what was claimed by someone.

Removed the incident that I stated of how a co-worker of my husband was doing something that was harmful to children and he was seen as a great person, no one believed them until he confessed.

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I agree with what you’re saying with one caveat: If someone is breaking the CoC, nobody’s perspective matters.

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That is a given, should have made that clear.

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You are correct, however I think the OP was also commenting on the fact that these things turn into a bit of a witch-hunt sometimes, at least that’s how I interpreted it.

Breaking the CoC is a matter for the devs to deal with, not for in-game retaliation, or suggestions of it on the forums, or for forum bashing either, regardless of whether anyone agrees, disagrees, likes or dislikes anyone involved.

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And I hope that is what I was trying to say, don’t judge a person from someone who wants to trash another. They could be telling the truth, but they could just be vindictive over what happened to them.
We don’t know the truth if it all, so don’t accept what is said in a post as total truth until we have all the facts.

Which we many never have.

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The saying of “There are always three sides of a story; person one’s side, person two’s side, and the truth somewhere in the middle”

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Very true, a good point to make

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Too late, I worked too hard to sharpen this pitchfork. :sweat_smile:

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Even if you know this as a fact. Do not ruin a persons income at all, or take any kind of hostile action. The admins are here to punish people who need to be punished, If the admins deem it not to be punishable, no matter how much you disagree with it. Leave it alone.

This is the internet. This is not governed by US law or politics and to try to suggest this, with the way you have it worded, on to others might be highly insulting to them. It would be more tactful to just simply state „Innocent until proven guilty“ and leave out anything to do with which country it came from.

Everybody needs to take a step back yes, and not get involved in stuff that doesn’t concern them. It is not up to us to judge the person. All we do it report it.

Also I wish the mods would start De-listing all topics that contain name and shaming and/or other types of drama that is designed to damage reputations, and not just lock them which keeps the content view-able by all and therefore means new people can read the content and become exposed to what should not have been made public in the 1st place.

. >> image <<

I know it can be done.

In short. We don’t need to see both sides of the coin. In fact we shouldn’t be seeing the „coin“ at all. It doesn’t concern us.

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Wait, there’s a side between the two sides? Is it an in-side?

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mine broke in beta lol

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Wow take it easy moeb, it was just red gleam!

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Yeah some people want the sandbox to themselves and should be careful what they wish for.

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There’s inside, outside, upside, downside, left side, right side, beside… ok im done now haha.

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No offense but saying the US’s premise that being “innocent until proven guilty” could be insulting to someone is sort of left field… why would you as the accused want to be considered any other way? Guilty until proven innocent like they do in communist or other deficient forms of dictatorship? USA is not perfect but I would rather be on trial here than say North Korea, Iran, or communist China… I have made my point, will stand firm to this belief, and You can have the last word…flame me if you want but I would say the majority silent or not would agree with me…

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I don’t think it was so much the saying, but including the country of origin. I’m guessing because the US tends to police other countries and strut around. Tends to annoy some ppl if they feel it’s being waved in their face.
I’m saying this as a US citizen who agrees with the saying.

In conclusion, much like politics, it’s best to (unless relevant) leave countries out of the topic.

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You did not fully read or fully understand my post, Let me help you understand it.

There is nothing wrong with saying „innocent until proven guilty“ What can be wrong is to word it in such a way that could make it sound like ones own country is superior to another, or otherwise try to convince someone to believe something Because it came from that country, which therefore can make it insulting.

If you read any of my recent posts i made in the last 12 hours or so then you would see I am quite against punishing the innocent.

. >> Example Seen Here <<

No. I don’t attack players, I debate/object the ideas players have if I feel there is a problem with the idea. It is never personal.

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I wasn’t thinking of it as going the US is better than other countries, I don’t think we are, we do have a different way of life than other countries, of how we have the belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn’t make us better.
For me, that is just a concept, I mentioned my country, which in hindsight I probably shouldn’t have, but it wasn’t to ignore the other countries, just that I know many don’t see it that way. As I head a judge in another country, which I won’t name, in their country you are seen as guilty until you are proven innocent, and as a US citizen of American, that thought was appalling to me.
I think part of our problems is that we advanced too fast and without meaning to are a bit like present day teenagers, full of ourselves and not meaning to have the attitude we are better, just have the attitude of look at what I have accomplished. I find it interesting that in a conversation with several students from all over the world one student remarked that many people from other countries want what the US has but don’t like the US, which to her made no sense.
I’ve never seen my country as policing the world, but trying to help the underdog, those who are being preyed upon by those who want what they have and want to take it by force. We step in to help. And in many cases, we shouldn’t. Either they need to stand up for themselves, or suffer from it.
Okay, politics should be off topic here and I’m not wanting to start a argument of what country is better than others or what other countries should do.

Topic is, we should not pass judgement on heresy, on what one person says because we do not know the whole truth, probably never will and we should just go with sorry that happened, take it to the developers, don’t discuss it here; this isn’t the place to air your grievances about another player.

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The US was the first country to truly embrace the innocent until proven guilty ideology… nothing wrong with giving credit to the USA…we are not perfect but I am proud of our country and feel that there is no reason for someone to feel they “could offend” someone by giving positive credit to this country for the idea. Ludicrous.

Yeah I responded lol I am such a dork lol

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You may not feel that way. That doesn’t mean some others will feel the same way.

And this isn’t about giving people credit, one can do that with out risking sounding pretentious about it. It is about wording that can be (mis)understood as something insulting when you try to use the reference of a country as the reason to support your argument on an international forum.

This side track has gone on long enough, My point was just to make the person aware what he said might be misunderstood, if you would like to talk to me more about this, you can do so in discord

Trundamere#0001

Thank you.