Testing 214: New player polish!


#103

I’ve yet to see a single person advocate for something they know they don’t like, or even entertain the idea that what they want might not grow the game.

This community is filled with people who care only about shaping the game the way they want.

I’ve been critical towards a lot of things, but on the basis that so much time has been spent on them, and questioned their worth, compared to that development time being dedicated to other features players have asked for.

I wanted the bomb mining nerf, but even I realize that was far too heavy handed.


#104

A few suggestions here,

  • Add some arrow animation and light effect on Sanctum’s black portal as well (the one on right side).
    Base on my observation, most new players ignore that one before they meet some experienced player to tell them they can use it to warp (including me when i was newbie)

  • Add a tutorial for marking the place and check your current location as well. A lot of new players took very long time to know how to use this function. A little confusing in UI i think.

Providing more functions at Sanctum can be very helpful for players as well.

  1. Personal bank system, so players can moving their coins and stuff without using request basket.
  2. Setting in game tips in sanctum like library room, its more obvious for new players to know when and where to check the information they need easier. ( Level of worlds, atmosphere protection skills, food buff …etc) I know we already have some tips in menu UI, but its better to set one in sanctum as well.

#105

I promoted and shared more than a few times what a new wipe would bring… it might not grow the game but I think it gives us a better rebalance of planets and a few other things. Of course maybe I am fine saying this because the only reason a wipe would happen is if the game must have it for a technical reason.

This is incorrect in that there are many of us that disagree with some points but still promote a larger win for everyone. There was a specific private message between a few of us and James. It is very known that Simoyd and I don’t have the best of relationships and disagree on many things. But in that thread we were able to support the larger aspects of the game and what each of us were saying on why things might be better even if maybe we didn’t want that specific component. Basically us agreeing with each other even though there are other areas where we don’t. So that was for the betterment of everyone over one.

Obviously most people support stuff they will benefit from but there are cases where people will support it not because of what they get but because it was for a bigger reason.

The bomb nerf was needed on a balance level because people were taking advantage of a system. The heavy handed part was that the devs did not realize the “fun” aspect of it and were more focused on the “balance” aspect. It hasn’t come fully back because it was not balanced…


#106

lol. How many gems we could get in bomb mining and How much gems we can get in current hammer mining ? You are talking about 700 gems / hour method is more powerful than 1800 gems / hour.

“Balance” huh ?


#107

I didn’t mean everyone, I’m aware that especially you, and some others, do take a neutral stance. The vast majority however, don’t.


#108

I know you might find this funny but they looked at the metrics and based on the approach they feel is needed it wasn’t balanced in their eyes.

So they adjusted the bomb mining aspect. If people continue to take advantage of another loop hole to get excessive things they will balance that.

Also considering how the community went ballistic over the change, imagine what would happen if they adjusted that 1800 one. Either way it is in their right to define balance and select what area they want to target and what not.


#109

I admit that is a hard thing and most want what makes it most fun for them. For me there are some things I don’t know I would like but if it really grew the game then I would allow as long as technically or logically it made sense. Either way I do agree it is critical to hold people to their views to really determine if what they want is really for the betterment of all or just for them… e.g. maybe like the discussion on prices or so many other things we talk about.

If people can really logically state their points with proof then I will support it even if I completely disagree. I think we need more of that versus the name calling and “you’re just WRONG” type junk we get in the forums too much. I’ve seen too many discussions get ruined because people can’t have a mature conversation on a topic.


#110

I’m down for whatever as long as it grows the game. Hence my exit poll thread a few months back.

I just don’t want to see the developers commit to an aspect of the game that might not actually represent what many and or new people want from Boundless.

Just because they have a vision for the game doesn’t mean it matches up with the market forces.

Anyway, I’ve said my piece. Sorry to anyone I offended.


#111

The “how to get silver” thread that’s up right now is a good example of what a ton of players faced. Seems clear the game still isn’t set up properly to guide players at this point.


#112

Well, yeah its their game, of course they can do what ever they want.
But clearly its a huge mistake of what they done since the release.
if you notice, this is the starter point for decreasing of population.

The only excuse i can accept for bomb mining removing is the meta not fit their game planing.
“Balance” is really a joke, because we can clearly see that removing bomb mining only make everything went even worse. Gem market break right after Merlin release the “current meta hammer mining”. Its 10x easier to setup, and 2x more efficient than bomb mining. The result of this mistake made by devs was huge, this why we only have less than 50% of population compare to the release week lol.

Me and merlin we calculated the correct build and setup for bomb mining at first week release day.
Merlin created the hammer mining method 2 days after devs removing the bomb mining.
So yeah, I know everything and grind rate long times ago. Because technically you can said our guild was the first tier of group using both method to grow, because the creator was in our guild lol. (Shadow Dragons)


#113

Maybe I’m not explaining the point correctly. The issue has nothing to do with one balance issue versus another balance issue. People will always find ways to exploit a design for the most profit or benefit.

I don’t see it as a mistake as do others - it was a decision that resulted in a response. Nothing is a mistake really. Either way, there is no direct proof that one thing = 50% population reduction. There are WAY too many factors regarding population and why people play and leave to try to blame it on a single factor. It is just really not smart at all to hold them accountable for 1 decision and try to link it to a bigger situation. Logically it makes no sense to hold them accountable like that.


#114

Can’t we both agree that bomb mining could use a boost?

Would either of you agree with my idea that balancing it by setting a percent-chance the ore/gem is destroyed would allow them to balance it against hammers? Instead of bombs just destroying everything.

Or make a new item, TNT or something, that can be used for bomb mining?


#115

You don’t have to be sorry MinerDiggerMan.
This whole place have been out of touch since countless years.
Talking about what’s trending in 2019 voxel games is strongly not recommended here.

Aside that.
I salute the effort to give a better experience to new players. This is a move in the right direction.(sad we had to wait for deserted servers to get this).


#116

This is why I’ve been pretty detached from the game. Lost a lot of faith in this community to keep the game steered in the right direction and the devs don’t seem to be that focused on the actual problems. I love the devs and all… but if all we say are nice things then nothing gets improved.

So I do agree with what you’ve been saying lately.


#117

I haven’t used it enough more used it in the original way to really have a say either way. I also don’t have enough data on why they did/did not like it or felt it was not balanced, etc.

I think it offers features that are nice that maybe are better than the forge way right now… I’m not sure. I think people need to do a post around the specifics and see if they can get a response from James or a developer on their views. But honestly I doubt that because we have too many polarizing people in this forum that cannot have a mature straight forward conversation.


#118

I’ve used bomb mining before and after nerf. And keep in mind, I was the one calling for the nerf originally, I just didn’t expect it to be murdered.

The enjoyment of bomb mining is, getting to make huge holes in the ground, and then seeing all the glowing, pretty gems and ores you managed to snag.

The current system detracts from that, because any ores and gems you find are going to be on the outside of the blast radius, which means you’d have to throw a bomb every couple block spaces, or risk blowing up an entire vein.

At this point, I think what makes sense is a new item, like I said, a TNT or something, that detonates an area and is balanced specifically for a purpose.

But if 3x3 AOE fast brew hammers are OP, then they have to balance that first.

Either way, I can see why people enjoy bomb mining, and because there’s no real end-game mining system besides mountain-clearing because spelunking hardly exists, it might make sense to reintroduce bomb mining.


#119

Well, i don’t agree to your point because its somehow pointless lol.
Who will use your version of bomb mining to get around 250 -500 / hour when people still have current meta hammer mining for 1800 / hour ? In this case, i prefer devs to spend their time to take care other things.
Every balance should means something to the current game content. If they modify the bomb mining with your ways, it means 99 % of people will still use hammer to mine, then why bother to change it ?

The only way your method can work is under the condition that they decide to “huge” nerf the hammer mining to the girnd rate around 200 -450 gems / hour. In that case, people may consider to take a look about this half version of bomb mining.

Bomb mining require correct build with specific damage output calculation in specific planet.
Bomb mining can’t get any experience when you use it to mine.
Bomb mining can’t get any rocks for you to exchange to experience either.
You can’t increase the durability of bomb with forge effect.

All of the negative compare to current hammer mining, and you still want it half chance to destroy the ores ?
It doesn’t make sense.


#120

Sorry I think you misunderstood.

What I mean is,

If hammer got 10 gems/hr
and bomb currently gets 3 gems/hr

Just adjust the percent chance a bomb destroys a gem until bombs also reach 10 gems/hr.

Right now bombs 100% destroy gems. Maybe make it so they have a 20% chance to destroy gems.

With bomb forging, you can make pretty massive bombs now, so I don’t know how many gems you could get, with old style bomb mining, 2x durability bombs, and the 11 meter bombs or whatever.


#121

Well, i said it’s the starter point. For me, it’s just one of the wrong decision they made cause the population drop with this crazy speed.

Why you think bomb mining is exploit lol. Bomb was designing with the ability to destroy blocks. Any tool tips said its only design to use in combat ? Or you think it’s exploit because it doesn’t look like hammer ?
If you ignore how it looks its just a hammer with larger aoe affect but slower action speed. (explosion delay animation) Why you think people use the item in game to grind should be considered as exploit ?
Current hammer mining is not exploit either, people used the food and brew to buff mining efficient, and best forge knowledge to create a tool to grind. You can call it meta method, but clearly both methods not related to exploit. The rock -> stone for exp is more like exploit in my opinion lol


#122
  1. you can’t use the durability boon to increase bomb’s durability this how i remembered unless they changed it recently.
  2. the largest bomb range is 7m i think. ( with lvl 10 boon)

So clearly, the chance of destroying ores won’t make this method worth to use.
the current forge hammer you get 1800 / hour (i think you are talking about normal hammer)
The current forge bomb is under 150 / hour i believe lol.

It’s really no harm to bring the old bomb mining back if we are only talking about balance here.
(If devs doesn’t want it back then of course this thing will never back)
The old bomb mining compare to current hammer mining still bad to use.
Most people will still prefer to use the current hammer mining method because you get more profit with same cost.

  1. you get exp with hammer
  2. hammer has way longer durability than bomb (forge tools)
  3. more gems + resource / hour
  4. with bomb mining you need to prepare one hammer as well.
  5. Easier set up for hammer mining (character skills)
  6. You get rocks to convert to more exp once you get home.

I can already list all the benefit that current hammer mining is better than the old bomb mining.
I master both mining method when i was doing it, so i know how ridiculous when people said bomb mining was not balance lol.

The reason i want bomb mining because :

  1. more fun
  2. cheaper setup for mid level player ( for new players when they reach to the point to get their first gems)
  3. i don’t enjoy the way convert rocks to stone for exp, so personally i don’t need that much rock, and with current hammer mining method the rock drop animation really damage my eyes. (Drop too fast)