Testing 214: New player polish!


#123

Thought for sure the radius was larger, especially because there are bomb augments now that boost radius.

And when they nerfed bomb mining, they doubled the durability of bombs.


#124

I guess because I would be considered a “hardcore gamer” I don’t understand how hard this game actually is to understand and figure out the atlas etc. I am a ps4 player and the atlas didn’t work for us for at least a month and still managed to get the things I needed without help from anyone. I set up my own portals got all the ores I needed etc on my own. It wasn’t till someone decided they wanted my 600k prestige to be a part of their town that I decided to stop playing solo which was almost 2 months in(I picked up everything and left for a different planet lol).

Tho any time I see someone that needs a little help with something I offer it to them. Be it directions, mining locations, tools, etc.

And about your comments on players stances. Not all of us speak up. I’m all for the betterment of this game even st the expense of something I enjoy and think should be left alone. I don’t say anything because I don’t feel like I need to or feel like arguing with people. I try to not let my a**hole side come out, since it accomplishes nothing when in the internet.

Sorry for the ramble lol


#125

Exploit is defined as: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

So yeah they exploited the feature to get the most benefit from it. And people are exploiting the current forge dynamics to get the most resources and things they can from it. The same also goes for using the rock -> stone design for the largest gain possible.

Due to this mindset of people they will always use anything to get the most they can from it. It’s a natural tendency.

Maybe in the future don’t laugh and understand what I was trying to communicate.


#126

That is the more classical definition of an exploit yes, but when it comes to online computer games. Most people seem to define it a little differently.

Bomb mining was simply over powered due to the devs overlooking what can be done with them. but it was an intended function of the bomb to mine with them because the devs programmed them to be able to do so.

An exploit in the more modern sense, refers to abusing some unintended side effect that requires some kind of trickery to expose and abuse an bug.

An random example here

Using an Exploit is typically something that risks your account being banned should you be found out.

Abusing something that is “Meta” or the best way of doing something is typically not an exploit in most cases.

Which is why I think @Wade44423 was asking you why you thought it was an Exploit


#127

Thanks for the explanation.
This is exactly what i mean.


#128

Yes I have played video games since 1983 so I am aware of the different meanings of the word exploit.

Really it comes down to the point of the “lol” in the response and no reason or need to put the message in the context it was and what it insinuated and assumed. A simple comment asking me to explain was more that sufficient. Or just actually taking the time and paying attention to what I was saying in the larger context of the discussion versus trying to pick my points apart.

It was very obvious we what we were talking about and nothing of it had to do with “coding bugs.” So the words I used should have been perceived in the correct context.


#129

You were talking about old bomb mining correct ?
They remove the old bomb mining and double the durability in same patch.
After couple patches, they release the bomb augments.

Even with all the things you mentions, its still can’t be compared.
Hammer’s durability can buff with forge effect so always > bomb’s durability.
Larger area effect for bomb correct, but it also very slow due to the delay of explosion animation.
Aoe hammer will always bring you faster grind speed than bomb mining.


#130

What has frustrated me the most in comments of what players want in the game is the entitled attitude of some players. We want t7 planets and don’t care what is given to the level planets, the new players don’t need them they should have to earn them.
In fact, it should be made harder for them.
Not everyone feels that way, but some do. I don’t know if they have forgotten what it was like to start new, or it was so much easier when they played before it was released in Oct. They had footfall so they could buy the items they needed if they couldn’t get them.
Some there make me think of my grandkids who have never had to do without because mom and dad have plenty of money and can give them everything. “I’m 16 and you should buy me a car, my friends parents bought them a car and I shouldn’t have to work and pay for insurance.”
Feel like I am hearing that hear.
What should be thought of is what the needs are for new players. You want more worlds, you want to have more added, then see to it that there are new players who STAY with the game instead of quitting because they don’t understand that they can’t have what some have here.

You need to get this, well, go and buy this tool, get these drinks, these food and you can get them.
Need these metals, well, go to this planet with these brews, food and you can survive and you’ll get x number of gems, ores if you have this tool.
Problem is, they can’t afford it and some here can’t seem to understand that they don’t have the coins and it isn’t that they are lazy, it is the cost is too high for them and they don’t know what to do and how to do it.

We need things that will give them something, a way to earn coins and they can’t open shops as there are so many that some aren’t making any money.
The devs need to look at what things have to be crafted that require hard to get resources.
So many items need shimmering orbs, but they are found only in mushrooms that are on the higher level planets that are hard to find. They need to increase the drop rate of them. They need to be found in more than one or two type of plants, growth and increase the number of those plants, the glow cap mushrooms

I want new players to be able to play the game, not get frustrated because they feel they are failing because they can’t buy the special drinks, food and tools. A level 24 player can not possibly go to a level 4 planet and mine for silver, they don’t have the right tools and can’t afford the prices. Their iron hammer is too slow and they can’t find the ores, or whatever it is they are mining for, so give up, go the game is too hard and trash it.

Developers need to think of what new players need, not what older, bored players want.
off my soapbox


#131

Weird idiosyncratic insider knowledge like Epic Damage x3 being needed for Miners is an example of material that’s just not good for new players.

Why do new players need to make alts? Why do new players need EPIC DAMAGE to mine? People come in with the expectation they can do things and can’t, and aren’t taught differently. There’s so much that makes no sense.

For a Sandbox game, it constantly feels like the game is on-rails.

Maybe they should ditch skill points and go back to, “The longer you do something, the better you get at it.”

Hit a tree 100 times, get +1% damage to trees.
Craft 100 items, get +1% quality to items you craft.

All I know is once you get to the point you need silver, the game hits a brick wall.


#132

Yeah, i totally agree your point.
There is a huge gap around mid level player’s gaming experience.
(The starter point of gem gathering and power coils build up)
I saw a lot of people just told new players to join the group hunt and buy aoe tools on market.
But the problem is not every new players know what is “group hunting” and how to join the group hunting.

Before we can use silver bomb mining to fill the gap to get our first income and gems to build up our first workshop. But since they remove the bomb mining, the method is very limited now.
And for new players, the forge tools are extremely expansive. Also base one current deflation market price, they need to gather a lot of mats which requires a lot of time consumes.
(This why shop owner they prefer to request it instead of gathering it by themselves)

I think provide more ways to get money at around level 25 - 45 for new players.
At this point is extremely hard for them to enjoy the game, and base one my observation, most new players quit at this point.

End game should be more contents and challenging, but early game need to be way much easier for them to keep new players.


#133

It’s not too bad. It’s a little harder, obviously, as breaking ores takes longer at that level with Iron Tools. There’s rarely any hostile mobs underground. You might be better buying an Atlas save running around on the surface looking for a hotspot.


#134

I wonder if this could be a bit of a balancing nightmare with different strength bombs, especially if you wanted to include all ore types and not just gems in the equation.

I’m also concerned about performance issues on the server by introducing RNG rolls for every ores/gem vein within the blast radius (which can obviously get bigger with forging) or would it be an all or nothing type deal?

Would probably need a dev to weigh in on whether those would be challenges or not though as I’m only speculating here.


#135

Can also use warp arguments to get to new locations on the planet looking for hot spots and avoid running around completely


#136

And this ends up being the problem. The players that have been playing for a while do try very hard to give good advice to the newer players. But telling them it is not that hard when they have been failing at something or that they need to spend even more of their limited coin in order to do something can sometimes create more dissatisfaction with the game since they apparently do not know how to play so they leave the game. I am not sure sometimes if we are being as helpful as we think we are.

Have we reached a point where in order to keep the players that have reached the high levels interested in the game (since it seems sometimes that we are the majority of the people playing and commenting in the forums), the developers have made a game that does not appeal the new and casual player? Are they making items more complex and requiring more resources and three machines and hours to create to keep us interested and making the more casual and new players less interested? If we think it requires a forged tool and food in order to mine effectively and that really is the case, then is the game becoming too complex? Is it becoming the second job that keeps coming up in the “reasons players do not play anymore” topic?

Edit: This was not specifically aimed at you @Marrs. It is just how the comments tend to be made by a lot of more experienced players including myself. I had a few friends join up and they quit even though I thought I was giving them good advice on how to play. They all felt it was too grindy and took too much time to really accomplish anything. They did not want to have to play for 20 hours a week.


#137

Is ok :slight_smile: Interesting comments. I was actually countering someone suggesting it was impossible to mine Tier 4 planets at Level 24. I thinks that’s not the case at all.

However, after putting a lot of hours you do learn an awful lot that makes life easier. Ahem … stone chisels when mining hard rocks - whatever level :wink: And if you give that advice, people say well why wasn’t I told by the game. Do I have to find so much by experiment and experience?

I don’t know the answer to this. Is it Creative Mode, or is it Survival? It’s a bit of both ofc

How much and holding and how much learn as you go? How much should you have to rely on other players for advice, help or even equipment? It is a multiplayer experience after all. That said I like to work independently mostly, but join the River Towns hunts most days.


#138

You raise a valid point that it is an MMO so is one way to encourage player interaction to not provide a robust tutorial but force the interaction with other players to learn? This might be what the developers had in mind, but it is so far from most of the other games I have played. In most they provide a longer tutorial or a place to learn that is safe before dumping you into the universe that maybe most players do not know they need to interact to learn and that is the issue. Of course the solo player is hurt by this way of doing things.


#139

LOL … I play solo mostly … after 1000 hours I’ve made my first diamond tools and forged my first lootsticks. That and also I’m a bit slow learning games. And - and I’m not sure if I’m alone in this(!) - my Alts have a backstory that they RP.


#140

Updated OP with details of Testing 214.1 release.

There is still a known issue with the GO HOME path when defeated. Once this is fixed we’ll look to release this live.


#141

Sigh I am using you because well, it’s easy, I have a good example here of what Many older players state and don’t think it through.

"It’s not too bad. It’s a little harder, obviously, as breaking ores takes longer at that level with Iron Tools. There’s rarely any hostile mobs underground. You might be better buying an Atlas save running around on the surface looking for a hotspot.

Forget me, I have no problem and I was lucky, my son was with me and I could go to planets with a experience gamer who was taking on level 3 meteorites on level 3 planets alone and not dying.
For the new, solo player, I’m going to show how statements, not strictly from Marrs, but from any older players who makes statements like this, it is more harmful than good.

First, generally, not always but most often, many new players are asking about going to planets that require protections and many don’t even have the extra points to put into getting them. So, they are trying to go to them when they should be told if you can’t get the protection to the burn, toxic and other two type of hostile environments, you shouldn’t be going there.
Second, a level 20 player will need probably 7 or 8 strikes with a hammer that will get quite tedious for them. Generation of instant gratification don’t know how to wait for the long boring session of breaking rocks to find one ore or gem and then have to bust through several more rocks, they will quit and go it is too hard.
Third. You have to get to a place to mine and that means going through some mobs. So, they will still need to have points into protection, which many won’t have, in the area of being able to avoid the critters, or have where the critters won’t pay attention to you and again, many won’t have those.
Buy a atlas, okay, I want to go to a level 5 planet for some gems. I need a atlas. To get there and be able to mine I need protection from the environment, which I don’t have, protection from the critters which I may or many not have and I need to buy a atlas. Do you know how much a atlas cost to go to one of those planets? At the least 500 coins. For level 6 it is 700 coins. Many would not want to spend that much on the hopes they can get to that planet and find the wanted items.
And even with a atlas of a level 4 planet do you think that the average solo player can handle a mob of stout spitters, some cuttletrunks and hoppers when they show up? Or accidently enter a meteorite zone and get hit with the elemental’s?
Experienced players are telling new players at levels 20 to 25 to go and buy a 7k - 10k coin tool, buy brews and foods that will cost them at the least 1k coins and go mine on a farm for something that they think they can harvest around 1k in a hour. Make me think of the rich people tell a poor person they need to save money. That expensive tool will last only 20 minutes, just around the same time as the brews. Yes, they might get that many but there is no guarantee they will. And there is a guarantee they will spend coins they can’t afford.

@Kal-El has asked a important question. Who is the game appealing to now in what it offers? Experienced players who want more to do, more challenge, more danger, more planets with new block colors and on and on to give a different look.
Or should it appeal to the people who have not bought the game, want to play a MMO survival game that seems less demanding in the aspect of fighting for you life every second of the day, you can live on a safe planet and visit the dangerous one and go home to where it is safe. If they want to get new players, there needs to be a change in attitude from both sides, more of the older players willing to not push their play style, you gotta get this to do that. The emphasis that you aren’t supposed to reach level 40 and have a base on a level 5 planet in two weeks, but by two weeks you should be in the mid 20s level and working on getting the skills to advance to level 3 planets, not to get to level 5.
Tutorials that teach the new player what to do. How to survive your first week aspect.
My posts, comments are not on me, but on others, I’m at level 50, I have started my second skill page, I can handle a level 3 on my own and to some extent level 4, but not a good enough player to go higher, And I am content I that, I didn’t feel the need to accomplish it all by the second month. I am just now starting to look at making forged tools, I like the slow pace I chose, I get to enjoy the game and not feel pressured to do this by this level. Bought the game in Oct, it is now middle of Feb, I have no problem in spending another four months learning how to make forged tools and weapons.
It’s a frigging game People. chill out, relax, have fun playing, quit stressing over not getting to this point, making these tools, having achieved this whatever.


#142

I’m very slow at progressing - too easily distracted, I think. I agree that you shouldn’t give people false expectation in case that get dis-heartened too quickly, but also, I don’t think it’s fair to tell people things are impossible when they’re not. I struggled to do some things but worked them out, or people told me.

I think, though, if you do tell people that something is possible, that might be hard, you should at least be good enough to tell them “how”! Hence suggesting using an atlas and getting off the surface quickly.

I could also have added that stone chisels are a quick way to move through hard rock until you find the ore; and dig down to the level you want, but I was afraid of coming out with tips that a beginner wouldn’t necessarily understand. A stack of stone chisels and an iron hammer was how I got my first diamonds :slight_smile: