So giving feedback is being seen as being “enraged”, do devs only want postive feedback, no disagreement at all? You are removing 2 forms of gameplay for a new system and seem to get mad when the balance of said system is called out. So only check that the code functions and not comment on balance or how it affects a players gameplay? Sounds legit. Not gonna lie I am kinda turned off by being called an “enraged majority” by the dev team, there has been a huge conversation with great points on both sides but I guess we should just test that the code works and not say anything.
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Unfortunately, I really don’t see many conversations. There’s been a firing squad, many have threatened to quit and many have sent personal attacks towards the devs.
Only a few people have actually been testing, many other people (but not all) have been extremely vocal about balance regarding seed distribution, ignoring literally every other change this update has. James has said repeatedly they can change the seed distribution at any time, and that the feedback they need right now are on the systems of the farming.
I just read your previous posts, and I seriously doubt he was referring to you. I don’t know why people assume they are being targeted when the word “majority” is used, which by definition clearly indicates there is also a minority that is behaving politely and isn’t doing this…
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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Yeah, sure, but James also said (unless I didn’t get a word of what he said, which is a possibility because I’m not good with maths) that if we were to have a 1:1 seed recovery during harvest, it would make it useless to go out to gather wild seeds once our farm is done.
Which is a fair point, don’t get me wrong.
BUUUUT you might also want to sell some seeds to people. You might want to expand your farm (which requires more seeds than you had before.
I personally didn’t get to spend too much time on testing. But I watched Stretchious for a bit while he was doing his thing. I think my point about the farming update making earthyam/starberry gathering waaaaaay more difficult than it is on live still stands.
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when you remove one method of getting something and replace it with a vastly inferior method then the rest of the changes of course are going to get overshadowed something happened with the bomb mine nerf eveything else in that update got deleted cuz the nerf its self was the front and center thing
it was ross but still we got a confirm that we are not going to get any meaningful changes in terms of seed distribution unless that middle gorund method gets bringed in but still it would reqiure players to spend even more plots to cover that method
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This is the problem with commenting about a function without actually testing it.
Say you go out mining. On your way to the mining location, you run into maybe ~100 starberry plants, and you break them. You now have at least 100 seeds. You go back to your farm, it’s been 8 hours, but you have more seeds now, so you replant the ones that need to be replanted, and you’ve got some surplus.
People keep commenting in a vacuum as though the only time you ever get seeds is when you go SEED HUNTING. Which is just not true. If you go on Hunt, you’ll run into starberry/yam plants and get seeds that way. Same with mining. Same with gathering sap.
If the system is 1:1, you’d be swimming in seeds, it would be insane.
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it would be insane but its not like you plant them then seconds later they become the thing. with the timegate it would make no difference then what we got with the current system of regain farming. what it would mean is one less thing people have to “grind” in order to do what they want to do
There have been a few other times we’ve had some dev responses where people took offense… many times the responses seemed to be like below… At least from where I stand my opinion is that people miss the point of why this happens…
enrage [ en-reyj ]
verb (used with object), en·raged, en·rag·ing.
to make extremely angry; put into a rage; infuriate:His supercilious attitude enraged me.
Synonyms for enraged
- angry
- exasperated
- incensed
- infuriated
- irate
- aggravated
- angered
- boiling
- fuming
- inflamed
- riled
- upset
- livid
- mad
- pushed too far
Seems like a valid word choice considering how some people have responded to the changes and farming design.
I find it interesting that many people are willing to use whatever words they want and choose to communicate in whatever fashion they feel is appropriate but when a dev picks a word they don’t agree with they have a problem.
Maybe if people don’t want to be perceived in a specific way they need to take a bit more time in selecting words they use when sharing their views… communication goes both way. People perceive what you say based on how you say it as well as their own views and beliefs/values. While we cannot control the other person we can continue to work and take responsibility on how we communicate.
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Fair and yes kind of funny. I never thought you were wrong on almost everything we’ve talked about. I just want a good conversation so we can find middle ground and maybe solve a few things. It is because each side has validity and we just need to figure out how to navigate them all playing nice together.
I’m not understanding the problem.
You plant your stuff. Say it takes 8 hours to grow. So you go gathering, or get some sap, or go mining, or hunting, or work on your build, and then after 8 hours you do more farming, and then you go do different stuff.
Or is the issue you just want to farm 24/7 and have plants grow instantly or something?
(I just had to)
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its more the game has too many prep steps for too little payoff when i used to watch some of the ex boundless streamers there biggest issue with the game was pre steam they would have to go out and gather or mine for hours then wait hours for the given item to then spend 20 or 30 min on steam building
unless you go farm crazy amounts of a given thing and have several of the given machine you get 20 min payout for hours of work this would be the same case
a person say wants a teaching pie to mine to max the xp they get will they need to farm the seeds back form there last run cuz its not 1:1 then tile, sow and wait to then get that mat that they need to then put the pie togather to then wait longer to get the pie its self to then go out and mine.
a 1:1 system would atlest take away a bit form that and just allow the person to focus on what they want to do cuz unless you are a dedicated farmer then whatever you are farming is just a part of what you need to do the thing you want to do.
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All of this can be condensed to say one thing,
You, and other people, want more blocks per craft to build with.
The thing is, I don’t see people saying that, I see paragraph after paragraph of people trying to explain a very simple request, and it makes it very hard for developers to understand the demands of players.
If the crux of the issue is that you don’t feel 8 hours worth of gathering gives enough materials to make the blocks you want, then that should be a singular focus in your comments.
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Would you considering yourself a builder? Is most of the activity you are doing to support building or other aspects like hunting? So all these things you are having to go out and do are just to make it easier to build?
I ask because the other parts of your post do make a lot of sense. Sometimes I feel the forced MMO approach is hurting us especially if people really just want more building… or to be a shop owner or whatever.
Sorry, but my testing found that this is actually not beneficial at the moment, but it’s possible that it’s an oversight. Only the devs can clarify accurately.
For more details please see why here:
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i would i had a side shop that sold junk i collected but for the most part i had plans to do pixel art and stuff like that in early access i made a few big 500+ plot builds but lost the drive when the game released alot in part to do with forging and the kind of death of the economy in EA i did not have to worry about needing A to craft B to then craft C to then get the hammer i needed to mine i could just go to a stable shop and buy it and sell the by product to cover the cost.
but once wipe hit and we got forgeing those shops never came back the price for whats now end game tools skyrockted and being unable to find a stable shop i found my self forced to have to go solo or start up a shop just to cover the costs of tools for the few ones i did find.
so now on top of the metals i need for the hammer its self i now need to gather the mats to craft the stuff for the forge to then forge my hammer and with this new update if i say wanted a pie to go along with it boom more gathering and waiting to then go out and do what i want to do what was a 5-10 min shop run is now a day or 2 endeavor.
i get the farming update was released with co-op in mind but the tools to do it are just not there to be honest shop stands are just a minor step up form hand trading i still got to find the dang shop and hope the price is right and hope they have stock.
Yeah I get that game play loop you are talking about… I can see it isn’t fun. Honestly there are many parts of the game that I just don’t touch often because I’m not sure I like the a - b - c - d sequence. At times I like it and others I do not.
I appreciate you sharing because it does help to understand the other points you make and most importantly why.
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Nope, i think your on the right track. I think there are 2 issues being convoluted. Grind and farming. I personally suspect that when your done balancing, farming will reduce grind. Im also cool with trusting that. And i respect your efforts at digging through the comments and rooting out the inputs that help. If i were you, id wait until the rate of responses comes down or focus on the testing result posts lol. Its like a really really tuff code review!
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Overall the current WIP of farming does not feel like a very good replacement for surface gathering or for regen farming and that is the core issue. Farming would be better if it was in addition to the 2 old systems. The function of the farming systems are solid tho there needs to be ALOT more info in the tooltips as almost nothing is explained ingame. Fertilizer does not say it decreases grow time and where to place blocks to maximize yield is completely obfuscated.
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I’m seeing some pretty big variance on crop growth times, and it seems to be caused by the usual, bad streaks of rng. I personally would like it if the algorithm had a ceiling for failed growth attempts. It’d give the crops an absolute maximum grow time, and lessen the rng bias thing, theoretically an earthyam can now take a week to grow.
The crop rules are also pretty samey atm, the same amount of blocks needed for most crops, the most effective farms for each crop can use the same design, you only have to solve the puzzle once and change the block types around and you’ve got most crops covered.
Also, I think it can be seen as a good thing that most of the complaints are in the balance section. To me it means that the rest of the patch is great!
Should we not give feedback on testing balance? Was the initial balance really just a placeholder and not even in the ballpark you were aiming for in live? If it was a true placeholder I think it should be clearly said so in the patch notes.
final edit: I also firmly believe that if the game had a more robust economy, so it’d be realistic to think you’ll be buying seeds to replenish your stock, players wouldn’t feel so threatened when a new mechanic has parts they don’t like. Make skipping those parts actually be possible, not this random “hopefully I’ll find the item I’m looking for, or a buyer in this mall of random things for sale at random prices”
final final edit: I hope the goo rates are also placeholder, there’s another storm coming if you can colour only 2 blocks from one full grown goo, which can take a long time to grow, and if wild goo also drops just one kernel, and they’re only found on exos that don’t have regeneration and are pretty rare anyway, and transmuting the colour has a big loss to it.
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James,
I vehemently disagree that this is the lesson. Presenting a creative work and having it denigrated should teach you to be more consultative and not less. The lesson learned is not what to present and when, but how you will get there. I don’t want this to be perceived as just semantics, it matters.
WS has an opaque development process that reflects other issues of communication the studio has with its customers. The communication that currently exists is limited, infrequent and lacks vision. Additionally, you yourself refer to the “enraged majority” derisively in a later post. My only request, again, is that you adopt a more agressive communication style to keep the air clear.
This isn’t personal, I don’t care enough to be angry. I’m writing this because I genuinely want the game to be successful and my wife loves it. So, when you don’t communicate, or you let the forums fester like the gaping wound it is, or you refer to the “enraged majority” the itty bitty population doesn’t get bigger.
I don’t need a response, from anyone. I don’t care enough to respond. I just want you to communicate with your customers honestly and openly, listen to their feedback without judgement, and don’t be afraid to fail fast and fail often.
Take care James.
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