Testing 230: World Shop Scanners!

I was just playing devil’s advocate…

To get people to an area, to troll, or just for ff, someone with 1000 pies could put one or two out a day on a stand for 5c to continually be on the top 16 list. They won’t sell out because they’ll keep putting just one or two out each day.

That’s a full time job then :smiley: Depending on how actively people might be camping a store like that. We’ll see if we have enough players playing the flipping game, or just want cheap items at any cost.

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We have some fairly persistent players lol

I mentioned earlier that a list of 16 might be long enough to exceed those few players that are willing to do that.

Still wish quantity info would be on the GUI too. Maybe in the future :woman_shrugging: Apparently I am blind - quantity is included. Derp I did.

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I’m very interested in seeing if stuff like that is really profitable :smiley: There have been attempts to manipulate some markets that way in some games and they’ve always failed.

I’d like paging to be possible too. Quantity is there, isn’t it?

If it’s just 16 and no ability to go to the next page I’m worried there will be someone listing the pies for example 40.0, 40.1, 40.2, 40.3, 40.4… and fill the whole page.


Yeah, I think it’s a great start - with the current population. If the game has a growth spurt I think they’ll have to rework it a bit. But that’s to be expected I suppose :+1:
& You’re right, the quantity is listed. I have selective sight :eyes: apparently lol.

Sounds like something that may need to be addressed. Even the requirement to have separate beacons won’t completely solve the issue.
Since Luca has already said they will ban people for inaccessible shop stands, I believe this type of behaviour will be frowned upon at the very least. Maybe they should look at only showing 1 stand per player per planet rather than per beacon.

But… maybe we should wait and see what happens once it rolls out rather than worrying about hypotheticals :rofl:
This doesn’t seem like it would be an incredibly difficult fix to roll out if listing spam does become a problem.


You’re right, quantity is there.
Shop #14 was the highest, with the raw diamonds priced at 1414c each (therefore, not shown).


This is a great little QoL update that will make a lot of people very :slightly_smiling_face:. I just tried it and it works perfectly :+1:

  1. Full builder mode with the beacon map
  2. Original builder mode without beacon map
  3. All off

Give it time to see what happens and then go from there…hopefully more great updates to continue moving forward

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I will go to guys I know are playing the game and I will continue great friendships and buy from them regardless if been ripped off or not…I am looking forward for the update but I have certain shops I want to support regardless if they are cheapest or not…so a little exploring to a shop beacon because ur too tight wont hurt u.lol

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That’s because they eat those…

… persisting pies! :joy:


This is 100% important IMO. People toss around terms like ‘ripped off’ or ‘crooked sellers’ but I see things as being different from what I think @Evergreen is trying to say when he used the phrase “min/max their coins”.

Most players are trying to min/max their coins in the sense of buying for as little as possible, and selling for as much as possible. This is the normal behavior, and not creating sustainable relationships or supporting an ongoing multiplayer ecosystem, which is one of the things that people seem to argue against the most here.

Too much trouble, and not enough time. they want a warp to the cheapest seller and a warp to the highest buyer, please and thank you. This is the practically the literal definition behind the phrase, minimum effort / maximum reward.

Someone who comes in and sells themselves out of sustainability in a matter of weeks and then quits in 6 weeks from burnout and being tired of working so hard and still not making any margin (here’s one thing I call stabbing yourself in the foot) may put several other long term players off the game because suddenly they have zero business for more than a month. Or have to compete on margins so thin they can’t afford to support their own desire to build or play other parts of the game, it’s just not worth it to them any more.

I’ve seen this happen a few times, especially with forgers. And cooks.

And that’s why you see so much worry and talk about these things when a system like this comes up. Even from people that are, in the end, eager for the system. It’s not that the system causes these behaviors, but it facilitates them. And plenty of us would prefer that it not be built in such a way as to maximize them.

I’ve said a little about the potential pros of this system, and a lot about potential cons. Others too, i think mostly because the pros of the system are obvious and most of us want something like this in place. I don’t think that anyone here is expressly trying to argue against an index, though some would prefer more, or something different in its place.

Still, in the realm of specific targeted feedback on the design as presented:

I’m not worried about placement in the list. In fact I’m doing fine without any list. But I am concerned about not even being in the list because once there is a list, very few players will look past it. And I think there are plenty of other people here who think they can attract buyers on volume, location, or other angles but only if they are actually on the list.

These people will not be fighting with a goal of undercutting, or for top placement on the list. But if they feel they have to, they will go as far as they can to actually get on the list. With only 16 slots on a busy planet and (presumably) centicoin increments for bumping yourself up on the list, this can turn into obsessive list watching etc … and again, turn people even further off the notion of playing the game.

Paging a query is not much more resource intensive, and the increase is on-demand, not static. I suspect the reason that some of the features already in the back end but not being exposed currently have as much to do with interface design as with concerns about load. Considering the “roots” of the game I hope so, at least.

But in terms of actual feedback as much as any worry or what some people call complaining, I would VERY MUCH like to see this list be browsable to it’s full depth.

Honestly I think knowing that everyone will be visible anyways would help to devalue or even suppress a lot of the behaviors that people are concerned about.

I honestly think this would be “worth it’s weight” in implementation cost.

Editing to add: I haven’t actually seen screens of this, though it’s been mentioned. Is anyone that’s been on test looking at the display or rounding of partial coin amounts, or prices in excess of 4 digits?


Well said!

There will always be the .1c players there, but IF the economy is healthy, it isn’t that bad in the long run. At some point during the day/week there will be sways in the supply/demand balance and all 16+ stands will be bought/sold out. That’s when all the people who didn’t care about the .1 war get their orders filled.

If you want fast sales with the highest probability of the order being filled in a reasonable amount of time, you will increase the frequency you update your prices to be somewhat relevant.

At least that’s how it goes in most MMO markets I’ve played, the wild card here is the player numbers, we’ll have to wait and see how it behaves here.


Density will mean a lot, too. Even with the limit at 16 i suspect that a lot of item/planet combos will not always have a full list.

I’m not sure how much pressure that will create for people to spread out from the current traffic centers, but it might help. It depends on how many players are willing to travel to a large number of worlds looking for a deal.


@Nightstar interesting point. Are you better off in a mall that gets foot traffic but might have 20 shops selling the same thing or on your own on a planet without a mall? I think it will be interesting to see.

As one of the players that used the term ripped off, I can be more specific. When a new player buys a hammer for 700 coin and then finds it a short time later at several stores for half that, why should they not feel ripped off? They have no way of knowing what a fair or even an average price is. The game has been around almost a year, I would have expected prices for commodity items to have reached a small range around a median. At least this gives new players a way to know if the price being asked is fair.

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Last time I went exploring there were still places trying to get 80c for iron and 300+ for gems and I got to those places from a portal so the player is still semi active. I don’t think it’ll ever change. Some people build shops for the ff and but high prices on the goods as to not sell them or hope someone buys without realizing it’s overpriced

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Ugh i can’t sleep. Anyways …

Emotions are always a touchy subject. Since you’re asking, I’ll just point out that “ripped off” assumes a particular motivation on the part of the seller, and that’s the only objection I would make to the term.

I don’t think the person who chose to shop at Macy’s (mid/high market department store) feels ripped off even though they could have possibly gotten the same package of Hanes brand undergarments at Wal-mart for 60% of the price.

But this is also a case where someone who is unfamiliar with the local markets may not be aware that multiple retailers will carry this common brand at various prices. Say, someone who just moved here from another country or … something … a “new player” equivalent in the market.

The truth is, in both cases, someone may have chosen a particular retailer for reasons other than price, or they may have failed to do sufficient research and so “made a bad purchase”. Neither one got “ripped off” as both merchants had the products there available at clearly marked prices.

This is reaching for a parallel, heh, but it should be a clear example.

I’m offering a very low buy price for eyes in a basket in my shop. I stated this bluntly in the post I made advertising the baskets, and most of the other baskets are solidly in market range. The fact is that I don’t need eyes, and I priced them relative to the margins I’d be making on the other animal loots I’m buying when I eventually process 99% of them into essence or glue.

An inexperienced player may sell there and later decide to reel “ripped off” when they see prices at another shop. That’s not really my fault, and while I’m sorry for some inevitable bad feelings, the fact is that if you want top dollar for eyes you need to go find a forge shop.

The basket is there because a person who just sold me a bunch of their bones, hide, tallow, glands, trophies, blood, etc… at mid to high market prices might just say “you know what I don’t want to go hunt more baskets” and sell me some cheap eyes. This person is likely to appreciate dumping all of their stuff in one place and walk away feeling like they did just fine.

In the end, those priorities, and those feelings, belong to the customer.

Now, if I had a sign on my eye basket saying “BEST EYE PRICES IN 50 WORLDS” - That’s an active attempt to deceive and I would say 100% justifies feeling ripped off.

OFC no one ever has to 100% objectively justify their feelings but if you’re using accusatory terms there will sometimes be defensive replies.


It also works the other way. I’ve bought hopper eyes at ungodly prices because I found them in quantity and didn’t want to look for more. I knew I was overpaying, but because I didn’t research, I didn’t know by how much.

Information provides perspective. If someone is several standard deviations outside the norm, it just means less folks will likely shop there.

When goods are identical, you are left to compete on service and price.


That’s probably a while a go now though?! :wink::grin:


It is nice but becomes a big pain if you start flipping around among various tools and stuff… It keeps popping up when you might not want it. I am asking for a settings to disable or something to make it more on/off outside of showing automatically.