The problem with the nerf train

i get wanting people to work together but human nature is to resist being forced to do something and up to this point it was 100% possible to almost solo everything even more so with the ability to have up to 9 alts and now that they are changeing that the resistance is starting.

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(I am pretty sure I posted this in a previous thread here, and someone in that thread also mentioned that they learned pretty much the same thing in a (business?) class, but I can’t seem to find the thread, so here it is:)

I’ve personally found (in life, as much as in MMOs) that people always tend to work better (and more often) together if they are not forced to do so. Give people the choice of IF/when/where/why/who they work together, and it always seems to work out better for everyone. And a lot of people who don’t normally want to (be forced into a) group, sometimes end up in one, and having fun. :slight_smile:

…but maybe that’s just my experience… :man_shrugging:

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I mean, this pretty much nails it. Why go back and “nerf” (adding more materials to a recipe would be defined as a nerf right?) existing recipes when you could do so much better being creative and come up with new recipes that use underutilized materials? Creating new recipes hits two birds with one stone: adds new content and uses materials that most people store and forget about.

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If we just had a lot more recipes for everything it would help make the value of all raw materials actually have value and sought after.

I would like, for example, rocks to have more than a couple uses beyond crafting stones and used in building (whatever that building activity actually happens to be). Same goes for silted soil, sand, mud, ash, rock salt, flint, opal, etc.

Maybe that’s being a little too demanding though. The devs have enough on their plate as it is with fixing bugs and server stability issues. I think that’s mostly what is holding up a lot of the progress made towards pushing out new content pieces for us to consume and enjoy. After all, we’re suppose to get Lances as a melee weapon and that incorporates a lot of recipes, textures, sound effects, etc. etc. just from adding a single new item into the game.

New recipes for existing materials that give us new items and blocks would benefit every single player in the game. I just want more stuff to collect cause I am a greedy pack rat in these sort of games. :rofl:

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I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here too. If that was indeed the intent, and it’s heavily implied it is, why not go full RPG mode with the game, and have actual classes to play as?

This is something I suggested before, because how the game is structured right now, is too much like other Survival Games. Namely, Minecraft, Terraria, Ark Survival, and so on. Where you can do everything yourself. You can craft everything, break everything, build everything, and didn’t need any help as you yourself can do anything and everything.

Boundless is too restrictive for that, but looks and acts like that is the norm, and even promotes freedom, that you can go out gathering, pick a land to own and build a house, to craft machines and run a shop out of it, all on one character. Which isn’t possible.

So I suggest just throwing away the freedom lie and embracing the RPG Elements it already has, and forced characters into a Class. Gatherer, Crafter, Hunter, and Builders. Each with their own Specializations trees you can respec into once every 24 hours.

Gatherer could specialize into mining, Soil and Wood collecting, or plant/foraging collecting.

Crafter specalizing into Tools/Weapons/Tech, Potions/Brew/Food, or Forging.

Hunter specalizing into Bombs, Slingshots, or Fists

And Builders would only have 2 Specalizations. Building, which would give them farther reach and easier to build skills, like maybe even the ability to ‘Fly’ in their own plot, and able to place and break their own blocks in their plot in 1 hit. (If it’s a naterial block, like a Diamond vain, they break it in 1 hit still, but don’t get any drops, the block is straight up destroyed. They only get their own placed blocks back to avoid abusing of trying to mine with plots.). The second specalization being Shop Owning, which would have a bunch of utility skills for shops and more. Such as opening Portals and how far they can go, Tax reduction, and probably other shop related skills. Such as making Shop Stands limited like Plots in the number you can have placed down and skills to have more of them, and how many different items can fit into a shop stand from the same catagory, and so on. (Can even reward XP for them based on how many items they sold to a character that isn’t an alt, or alt of someone in the same settlement. Needs work.)

If the game took that route, I would say it would clean up a lot of misconceptions about the game, make balancing much easier as the devs don’t have to worry about balancing a shop owner with a hammer vs a miner with a hammer, if the shop owner can’t even equip and use a hammer.

It would even make nerfs to Recipies less devistating, as a Crafting character is the only one effected now, not everyone, and all they need to do is change what resources they ask for their gatherer friends to collect.

Right now, a nerf effects everyone, can everyone is trying to do everything. Everyone has a Gathering Alt, everyone has a crafting alt, everyone has a shop somewhere to sell stuff, even they are in the middle of no where. (I mean seriously, I went to a planet hunting for plants, and found this random house, far away from everyone in the middle of a desert biome, no portal, no roads, no one close by. And they had 6 shop stands selling items.).

But if there are classes, people that just want to mine, will only have a mining gatherer class, they wouldn’t be able to branch out and try to own a shop, or craft items, or try to build. They would only be gathering resources.


Of course, this suggestion will never happen, cause it would be a complete remake of the entire core of the game, even if it better fits the situation they want to force onto the game and gamers.

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And it certainly couldn’t be called “Boundless” anymore :wink:

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“Bound” :joy: they’d have to change the name

All these adjustments were needed and require very little adaptation. Small disruptions are to be expected when balancing an MMO with this much complexity.

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I’ve been making hamburgers my whole life. Bun, meat, cheese, lettuce, tomato. But on Tuesday when I woke up I couldn’t make them like that any more. I found that I could no longer make hamburgers without Soy Yams. But it was for the better because I had been just throwing my soy yams away.

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How about they fix netcode and the fact that I kill a mob and it still attacks me for .5-2 seconds.

This is 2018, I am not sure what is going on that this is the ONLY game I have ever played that has this issue.

When I was deployed in Iraq in 2007 I was able to play WoW as my hunter and PvE and not even have that issue – and that was with like 700-1100 latency.

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And then using soy yams required preserved mosquito found in 2000 year old amber from Mars. No worries though, in 2000 years, well have easy access to them, like all the Martians already do.

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Well, today it happened again, this time with hot dogs. You all know the hot dog recipe, right? Bun, frank, ketchup… well today I can’t make hot dogs without hot dog glands. Does anybody even know what animal drops hot dog glands?? I have 2 and I’ve hunted for hundreds of hours on T1-T3 worlds :frowning:

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because its simpler to add an item or 2 to already existing recipes then to come up with a new recipe,do the art for it,test its working as intended,make sure it can be chiseled etc,of course we’d all like new recipes but alot of us understand its also far more time consuming then to make a slight balance tweak.

not to mention then people will just complain the recipe menu is too cluttered.

Add new recipes for the same end product. That way no new art is needed. Give us another way to make a compactor or glass or brick instead of changing the existing recipe.

They can also complain that the recipes have too many ingredients, which way will create the least amount of consternation?

ok art maynot be needed for the same blocks but the whole attitude “stop nerfing and just add more recipes” will need new blocks which does need art unless you would like to see 100 recipes for the same 5 blocks because ppl couldn’t be bothered to spend <30 mins to gather a few easy to get materials.

so many times i see rock salt is too hard to get,waxy yams are too hard to get…look on my shelf to see 400-500 of each and i didnt even go out and try farm them because its really not that hard,

If someone has a limited amount of time to play and now has to spend up to 30 minutes more to find an additional ingredient, you think that is fine? I am not arguing over if the ingredients are easy to find or not. The point is adding ingredients does increase the amount of time to make something. If I have to gather 4 things versus 2, then it does increase the time I need to gather/mine/hunt versus craft or build.

edited sorry misquoted a number you used.

If they make a new recipe for the same end product, then I can use these 2 ingredients or these 2 ingredients to make the same thing. That does not increase the time needed to gather the resources. It makes what people might have stored have value, and it does not punish those with limited time by making them either find the resources to gather or find them to buy them.

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i understand that alot of ppl have limited time to play (hell even i do!) and as long as the devs dont go around doing that to every/most of the recipes its not a huge issue over 1-2 recipe changes (its a mmo changes should be expected) otherwise that would be just annoying,but when ppl complain “i’m quitting” over 1-2 recipe changes its just like really…-_-.

when waxy yams were needed i gather 24 in like no more then 10 mins tops as a test when ppl said they were impossible to gather,now rocksalt i can understand as that does take a fair bit of time to gather vs waxy yams.

i think that was the intention of the devs when they added waxy earthyams tbh but not everyone was happy with the change but then you cant please everyone so just aim for the majority and be happy.

I do agree, it is an over reaction to say this one change in a recipe means I should quit. But to be fair, this is not the first change and I think the fear is this is going to continue and maybe next time 10 recipes will change. With no information from the developers, all people have to go on is personal experience and sometimes rumor. I know in the time I have played, the recipes have constantly been made more complex and tools have been changed to require more machines and recipes to get the same effects. It is unrealistic for me to think that everything in EA was going to stay the same once the game launched. It was EA and the developers needed to try stuff to see what worked and what did not. But my experience does color my feelings about changing recipes.

Personally I think the logic behind, “players have a lot stored so we added the item to a recipe” is not a good idea. By that logic the 20k gleam and the who knows how much rock/stone/refined I have should be included in a recipe by now. Players might be storing for the future, storing for mass crafts, or just be hoarders (like me) who do not want to throw stuff out. And honestly with the last change where ash and mud are now needed, I am afraid to throw anything out. Who knows what they will decide is needed next.

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A simple fix for this would be to buff the drop rates for Spitter Eyes. Let them drop, at an extremely low rate, from T2 Spitters, which would be T3 worlds.

High level players will be unaffected by this. They’ll keep farming T5-6 planets and T3+ Spitters for the eyes.

Low level players will now be able to craft Pure Boon. Probably only single, maybe bulk if they farm a good amount, without needed to go to higher level worlds just to get ingredients for a low level recipe.

In addition, it’s better for balance. We increased the need for Spitter Eyes, so now to compensate we’ve increased the availability of Spitter Eyes. Not to match, but to enable lower-level players access to Spitter Eyes.

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Interesting ideas about first-class classes, there. It could work. On the other hand, there is a (sub?) genre of RPGs these days that advocate not having first-class classes in favor of “your skill choices determine your character’s role”. The Boundless game design looks to be in that camp.