CANCELED: Forging Changes

forge
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f4f08d1a638>

#211

Thank you for taking the time to think about how to do this properly.


#212

it seems there is nothing to look forward to? tha would indeed be unfortunate.

At least we’ll be getting farming :slight_smile:


#213

But, if I remember, it won’t be like normal farming, not like in Minecraft, Ark, Graveyard Keeper, or other games with Farming.

So tho it has the same name ‘Farming’, it isn’t even what we actually want. That alone already makes me dread what horrible grind they are going to impliment. Cause I was hoping to make massive farms to farm up some Fiberish Leaves without having to take a 2 minute walk to another planet to farm them at random, if someone else hasn’t visited first.


#214

Rather than getting out the gigantic nerf bat and slugging away, you need to have a way to get to the higher end forged items. With these changes, there would have been no real way to get to higher end forges without some very bad quirks. Are there too many plus 300 forges happening? Make it more expensive material wise. Or with this change, add deck slots so players have to work in quirk reducing. Forging needs a complete overhaul in the end since ideally there should be multiple ways to reach a high tier item, with varying costs in materials to limit the rng.


#215

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, these changes were good!


#216

We never even got a chance to test it. Personally I’ve never made a tool with quirks and defects and I am already forging end game tools… just like silver and gold there is problems with mid game progression that everyone seems to skip pass end game.


#217

@rossstephens thank you for bringing this forward and asking for opinions. I like most of what’s was proposed here and there has been some healthy discussion with the normal loud mouth negatives thrown in for good measure. I totally agree that forgeing for early game is near impossible as there are some key ingredients that require gathering and hunting on T4+ worlds. The proposed changes to the level one boon compounds would at least make it possible for someone to play around and begin to learn the system. However it is so complex and the RNG makes it even more so. An in game tutorial for forgeing would be benificial to the new forger.

The other major problem that has been touched on by several people is the exodus of the player base. There needs to be something done to reinvigorate the current player base and bring in more new players to replace those that have left. What those actions are are I really don’t have a clue. One thing that people will scream from the mountain top is to get more new content. They don’t realize the amount of work that entails. Bringing in new content that is balanced and fits in with what is already in game is more difficult than just balancing the current content.

Please keep looking over making balance changes to the forgeing system. Reach out to the whole player base if possible not just the few that frequent these forums. The negativity here has driven out a lot of good people.


#218

Some of the quirks could be fun such as the jump randomly or even some of the defects to troll people with such as doing massive reduced range on grapple and reel speed and hopping people don’t notice when you give them out to friends to mess with:

The issue is it would create such a mess with so many items late game being useless with many of these or a nightmare to find ones that actually can function and even make you wonder why they are a thing for end game items.


#219

Do you even play this game? A t5 or t6 gem hammer is definitely worth 25-35K right now. I have happily paid that on more than one occasion. One such hammer nets me about 1000 gems of my choosing which nets me back every coin I spent and a lot more.


#220

“Worth it” is relative. There is no cash in the economy right now and wont be until footfall is fixed. If you are putting forged items out to sell, and they are not selling, your prices are too high.


#221

Personally, I don’t know if these changes are good or bad… I don’t like the RNG gameplay and so haven’t participated in forging after I’d spent enough time getting to understand the basics and concluding it wasn’t for me.

That being said, I recall that back when the forge first went live several people (myself included) put our dislike about RNG systems out there, and that we felt it’d be better if we could pay more resources to overcome the RNG. To answer us, someone rightly responded that if we had too much control, we’d all end up with ridiculous tools. To make the point, they posted short video up of themselves using an extra damage, AoE tool (I don’t even think it was fast), and relayed one of the Devs’ (James, I believe) response they’d got through discord which was essentially: ‘It’s entertaining to watch, and it would be way OP if it was going to be common place’.

It is now common place. Something relatively drastic does need to happen. It might not be nice for end game players to lose their clearly unintended frequency of ‘God-tools’, but the longer is stays like it is, the worse it will be to try and fix later and the more entrenched the established players will become in the notion that the tools they have now are fine / balanced.

Please do continue working towards this end.


#222

This nails everything.


#223

Then wipe the game, if they make such a dramatic change. Don’t just remove a broken system, FIX it, by resetting the game back to release, make everyone start over, and redo the entire game with the new balance.

Cause this is the same issue with bomb mining issue. Where people abuse the hell out of Bomb Mining, collecting hundreds of thousands of resources. Then the change took away Bomb Mining, but the people that abused it still got to play, and still kept all those resources.

It ‘Balanced’ the game. But those that used and abuse it got rewarded, and those that didn’t, or came after, were punished for not abusing it themselves.

If they want such a Dramatic change to the balance. One that EVERYONE has been using since Release of the game, and even months BEFORE the release. Then they should wipe the whole game, and make everyone restart with the new balance. Remove all resources, all builds, all portals, Everything.

At THAT point, we will see how much the people like this new ‘Balance’ to the game.


#224

This is just my novice opinion. But it seems like the problem is the game has been balanced towards overpowered tools.

AoE uber tools should be extremely rare. On the flip side, you should never actually NEED tools that good. Base tools, mined and crafted from the corresponding tier, should be completely sufficient.

But the game has been balanced, for totally understandable reasons, toward miners wielding Mjolnir and flinging bags of cheat bombs.

So while forging, IMO, probably needs a nerf, the worlds somehow need a nerf as well.

And we need footfall fixed.


#225

lol funny, because it seems alot ppl bought all available hammers in fear that hammers like these wont exist in the future
hahaha


#226

1x3 is not very good, its passable. Any aoe without damage isnt much better than a non aoe with dmg as well.

But naturally the more you can take at once the better why we use 3x3 with dmg


#227

Not entirely true, cuz skills, brews can boost power. However there is nothing the helps with AOE effects beyond forge.


#228

Indeed. This is something else I bet people haven’t put much thought into either. I was only able to stand Gem farming twice, to get 282 gems once, because I used a 3x3 hammer that could 1 shot T5 blocks. without needing potions, pies, or anything else but the hammer. If I needed more stuff? If the hammer wasn’t 3x3? If it took more than 1 hit? I would have hated it, and gave up and not done it.

The issue, I don’t think is that the game is balanced for 3x3 1 shotting hammers. The issue, is that those features have been in the game for so long, and people have in their mindset what the value, grind, worth, time investment and feeling of the game is based on that.

Then this update wants to remove that.


To put it into perspective, it’s like Playing Dark Souls for so long, then an update happens and suddenly every Shield in the game is Nerf’d so that there are no more 100% blocking shields anymore, and instead the highest shield is 1 end game shield that blocks only 75% of damage.

Instead of people making builds with dozens of 100% def shields, now that 1 shield is clearly the best, and people that liked the 100% blocking and had builds around them, no longer want to play the game.


It would be the same thing in this game. People have been so used to it, the economy, playstyle, and ‘grind’ has been defined by it. (Which is why the answer most people have for those that complain is ‘Save up 30k and buy a 3x3 Forged Gem Hammer.’). And now they are removing that.

This doesn’t just change Forging, it makes the game as a whole, and the grind in it, so much worse. For those at end game, nothing changes, so they don’t care. But those in low or mid tier, or new players, the game becomes 100 times harder. All in the name of ‘Balance’.


This is why I said to @Marrash to have them wipe the game. Wipe everything and force people to play right from lvl 1 all over again with this new change. And we will see, just how much people like this new ‘Change’ that the Devs wanted to add in. Because then it would effect everyone, and not just the new players, which it would drive away.


#229

wipe is not an option, as we saw on the other thread where someone asked that hypothetical question for a whipe endet up with the most ppl (including me) would left the game 4ever.
well, and a dev stated that there will be no wipe ever, so i think we can rely on that.

i think it should be just possible to create silver or titan hammesr with like 3x1 aoes or damage and things, instead of removing old stuff they just could add a lower tier of all the forging items, a tier that is creatable just with items from tier 1-3 worlds.

maybe those items could never make a 3x3 effect, and not so much damage or have more chances for quircks or whatever.

so new players could start lower at the ladder to get up with forging, high end players can keep playing as they did
and also this would increase the chance for dedicated tools, ive running around allmost all the day scanning shops to find some titan hammers and shovels with 3x1 or 3x3, because i dont want to waste 20k worth gem tools on tier1-2 worlds.

it felt like there is no market for those lower tier forged tools, and the reason is: the efford in forging is actually higher than the efford in creating a gem tool.

so allmost nobody is creating titan or even silver/gold forged tools.
so to solve this: add a low tier forging item class that is very likely creating tunneler, random and 3x1 effects (in case of hammers/shovels/axes) and allmost dont can result in cross or 3x3. (just to use a sample, this should ofc apply to all effects) but the most important thing: make those items possible to get without the need to travel to t5 worlds and get oneshot as a level 30 player by some random hopper.
it should be possible to start very basic forging stuff without to visit any world that needs a protection, and without to run around 5 hours for forging a masscraft of those tools. and without having all skill points invested into forgery.

with this thing, players would maybe just forge themself some silver hammer a bit to oneshot on t3 or to have a small AOE on theyr iron hammer.
would bring more diversity into the tool market (because now its just 2 kinds of tools: anything not gem, forged gem).


#230

Agree the quirks at the moment are at best defective defects lol. would love to see actual quirky behaviour, with some positive and some negative. this would mean sometimes daring to push up them quirk points as it might add a 4th mini-boon… random hookshot, accidental double-tap, vampire tools that lose % dmg but add a bit of health each use, cumilative energy drain until you rest the 5s to regen… things you can work around, cant depend on, but that dont break the tool.