Forging Balance Changes on Testing

[MinerDiggerMan]

@Trundamere

The problem here, is you, like everyone else in this room, has already voted. we all bought the game.

We can choose not to buy any microtransactions, and we can choose to tell people on Steam to avoid the game, leave bad reviews, etc.

We have plenty of control.

[Unagi4me]

Yeah, I dislike rng in anything and in a game where the bulk of it involves fairly tangible amounts (18 trunks alway mass craft into 50 timber for example) the forge being rng really feels sort of slap in the face.

That said I like the way they are test these change and putting it there so we as players can sink our teeth into it and tell them what we like and don’t like. I enjoy many of the changes but alot of work needs to be done still. And many others have brought up great points and problems. So I feel the thread has had the desired effect for devs. Get to see what players and forgers think.

[Trundamere]

@MinerDiggerMan

We can choose not to buy any microtransactions, and we can choose to tell people on Steam to avoid the game, leave bad reviews, etc.

We have plenty of control.

Sorry, my response was more of my pet peeve yelling out with people throwing the term “vote with your wallets” willy nilly when we ourselfs have technically already voted in that regards.

But yes there is control in other ways, that i agree with.

[MinerDiggerMan]

That’s fine. I haven’t done the things I suggested because I’d rather the game do well and have RNG than tank and not have RNG.

Probably get private servers eventually, and I get maybe get rid of all the RNG.

[MrAndo]

Please for the love of god drop aoe5, its so annoying and kinda pointless, just my opinion

[telriche]

@rossstephens

1)* Now that quirks are better, Should the defect points be reduced on Imperfect Boon Compound so they still a have purpose?
2)* Is max effectiveness too high on high end (gem) tools, also do the discrepancies in flexibility between gem types make sense?
3)* Should Removal Solvents give some sort of protection to rolling the same Boon/Quirk/Defect twice in a row?
4)* Animations take a long time and people are skipping them, should the game have an option to speed this up?
5)* The last level of AOE forging feels like a set-back to some players.

1. Yes. Really, anytime a quirk point or defect point is applied it should be balanced out with a buff or bonus boon points and one strong enough to risk having those points applied. Players will just totally ignore items that end up not being worth the risk.

2. I don’t think its too high. I would say that the efficiency should be very close to the same across all gems.

3. Yes!

4. Sure. Less of a big deal. If it can be done without making things glitchy I’m all for it. If its problem or a challenge/ time sink that could be spent in more content, then I’d wait for a later QoL update.

5. Yeah… having a random aoe block effect as the final tier is kinda wierd… Keeping the levels as is and changing the last level to something else would be best. Maybe add this as a Quirk instead or something.

[Fallon]

@rossstephens

The last level of AOE forging feels like a set-back to some players.

I havent run into a person yet who considers it positive at the current meta, but I do know at least one good use for it.

Is the purpose of this boon progression to encourage the use of the new/old boon boost items or more gums during the forging process?

[JTWrecker]

I am still fairly new to the game and have only recently gotten to where I felt confident sinking resources into forging, so here is some input from a relatively fresh set of eyes.

• The centraforge looks daunting to new players because it’s not clear what you even need to get started. The average player will create the centraforge as soon as they can - likely when they have Iron gear - then see a red/brown low effectiveness value and get scared off thinking they aren’t ready. It’s also not clear what you need beyond a resin to do anything. So effectiveness should START at 100% and go up from there, instead of starting with a disadvantage.
• The costs look steep and the in-game implication is that you should not even bother with anything less than the highest level of components if you dont want a crappy result. The change to make reactive lamella more available on T3 worlds may help, but I question whether that is the right answer for something so fundamental as the compound base. If you want mid-game players to be experimenting forging, make the base components dirt-cheap to reduce how daunting that is to enter. Imagine someone who is still at the Iron-tier gear level, MAYBE just edging into finding gold - that’s the resources you have to work with.
• Lack of a good reference on available boons is a problem. The gums are meant to help with this; perhaps add boon types to the respective gums so you know what you’re getting?
• Another problem is that once the gums are on, there is seemingly no way to get it OFF except for the vigor catalyst - which is pretty pricey to create. I would STRONGLY suggest some sort of a de-gumming ingredient; a solvent or catalyst that removes all gums.
• It appears as though the boon ‘bar’ caps at 1k points, no matter how much you actually dump into it in a round; given that it’s possible to drop a LOT more than 1k in per round, that kinda feels wasteful. I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not.
• Right now I am not encouraged to touch anything that gives quirk or defect points at all; they’re basically ignored because I don’t see any value they can provide that cannot be obtained another way. Unless I am /forced/ to run the risk of quirk/defect, I’ll never want to craft components taht provide it. Maybe you could let such components fill the boon bar beyond the 1k cap per round? I dunno.
• The first time I created an AoE hammer I was happy - right up until I saw that my ‘all affect adjacent’ hammer had a massive -Damage from forging, with no clear reason why. I eventually tied the two things together, but right now this all but REQUIRES you to get both AoE and Damage on the same tool or suffer massively. I think this is a weakness in the current system, at least for it the AoE to reduce damage THAT much.
• I get the feeling that crit% and crit damage% boons should be paired into a single boon; if you get a crit damage % boon on something that naturally has 0% crit, it’s basically wasted.
• Are there any boons that improve the following: Drop rate, Walk/Sprint speed, Armor/resistance/element protection, health/stamina regeneration, revive cooldown/energy recovery, mob aggro radius, lava/fall damage resistance, buff/debuff duration. If these don’t exist, consider adding them.
• Do gums have an effect on what quirks/defects get added?
• For whatever reason, forging a stack of stuff takes the same duration as forging a single item. I’m not sure if that’s positive or negative.
• I definitely would like to see AoE available earlier in the game. Both for rock mining and things like sand/dirt/peat/mud/ash/wood collection - it really hurts to not have meaningful access to AoE early on. That said the last level of AoE is indeed a disappointment - ‘random’ should be like level 1 instead of level 5. I get that it’s full damage but no one wants that pattern. Replace level 5 with something larger than 3x3 perhaps, or just make it 3x3 at 100% damage to everything.
• Is it just me or is it wierd that gem gear is /easier/ to get components for than titanium? Titanium you gotta mix gold/copper or silver/iron into alloys, then mix again into titanium alloys - need three material types, as well as double processing sackcloth into cotton. Gem gear you craft leather directly and only need one material - the gems you process into refined form. Maybe if the sticks in the gem gear had to be metal rods or something.
• Does the centraforge actually USE spark? Or even need to be connected at all??

Anyway, all of that is just stream-of-consciousness input. Hope it helps!

[Zina]

@Manabanana the best most informative feedback. @Prome3us, I love and agree 100% to both your ideas of changes to the update.

@ppl who want to quit, while the devs are ASKING for feedback on what they have on the plate, instead of imputing the feedback and getting the changes desired, I call asinine spitter fodder!

[Zina]

I really hope these inputs are considered by the devs. 200 hammers and getting 1 that is decent is a BAD system!

[Manabanana]

I was rather disappointed to see that none of the feedback in the thread had been incorporated. I was hoping at least the bugs would have been addressed.

Maybe it will be addressed in a follow up patch. Some guidance either way would be appreciated.

@Zina

[Crete]

They are addressing the incorrect quirk wording, and the quirk values not showing correctly.

I really REALLY wish they would fix “Bouncy Feet” though… that would be one cool quirk to have on grapples…

[Zina]

Well they asked for ppl to check it out on test. Give feedback. They usually mean it. So fingers crossed they listen. I don’t want an even more random forging system. The issues I have now already irritate me. Washing away a boon just to get it back several times, and the level 5 aoe, is a waste and a joke. It literally should be number 1, and then the rest.

[Zina]

@rossstephens

meaning that cunning players will be able to push tools past what is currently available on the live server

Has anyone yet been able to do this?

[Prome3us]

@Zina

It literally should be number 1, and then the rest

Oooooh no that would be chaos lol.

@willcrutchley

Various Tool AoEs -

CATEGORY: Special

 Applies to: 
* TOOLS
* SPANNERS

Level	Effect	Specific cost
1	“Hit a Block with a Flanker’s Force Boon Forged Tool and cause 40% damage of a standard hit to that Block and those directly to the right and left of it.”	100
2	“Hit a Block with a Low Blow Boon forged Tool and cause 60% damage of a standard hit to that Block and the one directly below it.”	300

This table is from an old post but experimentally still holds, if they move 3x3 aoe to level 1; you have a very narrow window to hit it. You would have a 200 point window between 100 and 300 in which to land, and would make adding anything after aoe extremely risky… going for damage / dura first then aiming for this aoe would result in thousands of wasted boon points on tools that often wont hit 3x3 aoe - a new issue that many wont like either

[Crete]

oh yea! I can’t tell you the frustration when i was trying to get Lvl 1 AoE (the 1x3) on purpose… I had to totally rip my deck out and craft new compounds. Just to target the one i wanted. One of the most difficult effects to target.

[willcrutchley]

Theres an updated post

Forge Trait Mega-thread (Updated for Release 203)- Boons, Quirks and Defects!

Boon Damage Over Time - "Let 'em Bleed Boon" –>"Leave a lasting impression with Let 'em Bleed Boon and cause a $[STYLE(Lvl ${LEVEL} Bleeding,1)] Debuff that continues to Damage your targets over time when hit with a Forged Slingbow shot." CATEGORY: Special Applies to: * SLINGBOW Level Effect 1 Rank: +10 Status Effect Applied On Hit Type: DAMAGE_OVER_TIME_FROM_ITEM Status Effect Applied On Hit Level: 1 2 Rank: +30 Status Effect Applied On Hit Type: DAMAGE_OVER_TIME_FROM_ITEM S…

[Danyka]

Any idea when this will come.in effect?

[Prome3us]

Yeah thanx will i use the updated one (and pendragon’s shortlist) often, was using the old one because it had boon points to attain level indicated

[willcrutchley]

Ah,