Testing 194: Epic Skills, Skill Sets and the Exchange!

News Releases
43

Honestly, I totally agree with @schasm after testing some of the skill setups myself for Gatherer, Crafter, and Hunter… It definitely feels like butter scraped over too much bread. I’m making sacrifices on each of them… and I’m not a fan of that. I think this update is extraordinary, and the new skill setup is SO much better than before. But I’m thinking it would be so much better to have 100-120 possible Skill Points used, rather than 80.

I’ll actually give an example. Right now for my Gathering skill spec, I have chosen:

Power: 8
Control: 3
Dexterity: 8
Luck: 8
Zeal: 3
All Attribute: 5

Hammer: 5
Shovel: 5
Grapple: 5

Hammer Epic

Light Source Epic

Portal Epic

Gathering Epic

Jump Distance Epic

Air Jump Epic

That’s all 80 of mine. This is what I believe to be necessary for my Gathering character to have. (Portal Epic can go with any of them, but it’s still a sacrifice on any of mine to have it.)

Everything I want my Gatherer to have that I had to sacrifice:

Slightly more Control for breaking blocks farther away.

Agility in any capacity. It’s at zero right now because I can just grapple to move quicker.

Axe Mastery.

Stamina Epic.

Durability Drain Epic.

Health Regeneration Epic.

Some atmospheric protection once that hits.

It’s just overall kinda… meh. I hope to see this slightly more balanced.

I truly do appreciate this update, Boundless team. You guys are putting some seriously hard work into making this game as great as it can. Those were some specific thoughts I had, but overall I’m very happy with this update!

Edit: After playing with the skills a bit more, I think the MOST damaging aspect is the Attributes. Eight levels of each, each costing one skill point, and so many attributes are so important for all three builds. I feel like reducing attributes to half a skill point per would help so much.

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44

there is another problem there I see now, maybe I’m wrong - its the Forge skills - but I will make a separate topic…

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45

That’s my whole point - I will still be able to craft everything. And I will build a massive workshop that 2 characters have home beacons with.

All that these rules will do is prevent casual players from crafting everything and make it extremely unfair for smaller shops who don’t dedicate so much time to running a shop as I do.

I like having competition - its no fun when you’re the only person that can craft everything :frowning:

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46

So does this mean that we can potentially make a miner but it won’t be able to defend it’s self so will therefore be restricted to home planets and if we do go somewhere to perhaps mine diamonds for example we will probably die multiple times due to mobs spawning in caves, let alone just navigating the terrain. Which in turn means loss of XP and therefore no leveling?

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47

Question about the crafting skills.

Can things such as Tool Crafting get up to level 4? Or is level 2 the cap? I see Epics that raise specific crafting skills but I’m not sure if it’s in addition to the normal crafting skill tree.

48

I have to say my first attempt at a miner made him a weak figher/survivalist. Second attempt made it better but it costed him his mining skills:/
coming back to my previous post here:

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49

@olliepurkiss: The Topaz Swift Hammer is really overpowered on testing. It has about 3x the attack speed possible on live now and about 3x the damage.

Before forging it at all I can one-shot blocks on Vulpto and two-shot resources. It’s also so fast that a single click frequently takes down 2 blocks.

This insane speed means that I burn through my energy in a few seconds and then wait slowly (since energy regen is a epic I did not take) for 3-4x times as long for it to recover.

It really feels out of balance to me.

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50

Don’t be silly, Omni. The skill points need a balance check, true, but the idea that more specializations hurt smaller shops is very disingenuous, if not shortsighted. Nothing is stopping you or anyone else from doing massive shops. The game should allow for that, after all. But the value or your materials and everyone else’s will go up, and prices too cheap will be quickly bought out and redistributed.

Clever reply, Omni. But nobody is buying that argument :slight_smile:

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51

I absolutely detest the idea of skill specialisation/restrictions … anyone would think the current live games shops are all overflowing with everything because we can all make everything and therefore no one’s going to buy anything.
Having to choose a so called career in game sounds a bit too much like real life to me which is not what I look for in a game.

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52

You’ve said you though:

while also saying

It seems like you think that people should be allowed to run big shops, but shouldn’t have the time or capacity to stock their own shops and still stay competative? Almost as if the person making the posts had a personal stake in making sure shops that both buy and (optionally refine and then) sell goods are going to do well? I would say I thought you post was clever but, I don’t know… it just seems a bit disingenuous, if not shortsighted.

At launch, sure, the value of materials ‘might’ go up while for a bit. What is likely to happen next, is that anyone interested in working the economy with their boundless output will feel more forced to find the singular most efficient way to spend points to get what they want, because each specialisation is too narrow. Once that phase has been completed, the game will go back to what it ‘would’ have been before, except that the gap between casual and dedicated players will be even MORE distinct. And then don’t forget, new players will hopefully be coming to the game post launch. They’ll have an even larger uphill battle to get to the point where they feel like they can compete on even a vaguely even playing field.

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53

People can run big shops if they want, and with friends working for them, they can probably keep it up for a while. But no single person should be able to fuel a one-stop-shop by themselves. That’s just common sense. Meanwhile, small traders and shops will be able to create niche markets with higher value goods, since products aren’t worthless, and stocks are limited for the big shops (nothing is infinite).

It’s true that I recently opened a small shop. I don’t apologize for it. I don’t care if I make money or not; I enjoy the role I fill. If the game stays as it has been in value of goods, I’ll still play, because I love this game and the community, including Omni and his amazing shop. That’s not the issue. The issue is the economy, and how it devalues so many products when it’s quick and easy to gather and craft them.

Your idea about a new, casual, specialized player trying to work the economy has one major flaw: most players aren’t trying to work the economy directly. They just want to provide a relevant service. It will be easier to specialize (once they balance the skill points) time and effort for a few specific things. Big shops will still have a massive advantage, especially if they have a guild or community to support them. But small shops will be able to trade and deal in niche markets and still see some good income because value has gone up. The game will not return to an early access state because the time and effort it takes to gather and craft products will remain the same.

I’m not sure you understand the basic inner-workings of the boundless economy system. Nothing is actually free, but if the system gifts too much too fast, it all becomes less and worthless.

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54

Certainly my experience last night says Yes, for now at least. Let’s hope things are tweaked to the more generous side based on feedback. It’s a shame because as you say there’s lots good about this update but the actual important bit, the playing of the game, feels off.

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55

I believe those forced gamy mechanics are a bad thing. I’ll be able to switch profile so not that bad I guess, just like I was able to make an alt before. But I believe some of those limitations have no reason to be there. I agree on the mutually exclusive skills on weapons, To make hunts more interesting. Right now we have 1 weapon and a half so it doesn’t matter anyway. For other stuff they might make sense too.
But for crafting. Pretty much anybody that want to craft weapons want to craft tools too. It’s basically the same recipes. It appeal to the exact same people obviously. Why is there a gamy mechanic to limitate them randomly? Same for brews and food.

I’m really happy about how complex every recipes have been made lately. As most people are now not interested in crafting/harvesting everything, and prefere to trade. I believe the game don’t need gamy mechanics to enforce specialisation. People will do what they like to do. It just makes the game cumbersome, less fun, especially for low level players, and won’t have the desired effect.

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56

I totally agree that the complexity of recipes is a far better limiting factor than skill limitations. Limiting skills and forcing people into specific occupations won’t be fun and if anything will probably result in even more worthless blocks being touted on every plinth because very few will have the skills or time to venture off planet and mine/gather the necessary resources to craft higher level items.

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57

You all are very silly, and working very hard to say that “not being able to do what I’ve been able to do previously is bad, but I’ll be able to switch profiles so not actually that bad.” The bottom line is that people are used to something and now that it’s going away, you’re all furiously trying to justify why having more is better.

This is why economy-based games always fail. It’s just greed, plain and simple.

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58

I’m trying to ensure that players who do not have a thousand plus hours to unlock all crafting can also compete in the market. The moment this patch hits live my concern will become apparent with the immediate severe gating of access to end-game crafts.

I’m not going to engage on this further - I have voiced my concern and its in the developers hands now. Lets agree to disagree.

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59

You’re not trying to ensure that, Omni. Of all people, you understand market forces better than most, so stop trying to suggest that higher values of goods is bad for the economy. That goes against every sensible and rational economic evaluation. As long as the skill point system is balanced (which needs work), higher value goods will mean even a low-level shop owner specializing in fibrous leaves can spend more time (which means value) on leaves, and the larger shops that sell them can’t compete with the same level of sweat equity.

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60

I don’t think you read me. And I’m not saying “not being able to do what I’ve been able to do previously is bad" I believe the previous system that forced you to make alts was bad too. And I thought the new skill system was supposed to stop that nonsense.
You believe that arbitrary systems that stops you from crafting efficiently weapons and tools at the same time will stop people like omni and me to max out everything if they feel like it, you’re wrong. I have 3 characters, all high levels, I can do it again. You have a shop too I believe you’re in the same boat as us. I think you are the greedy one here. You want low level players to struggle with mechanics that don’t make much sense just so you can sell your stuff at higher prices.
And as previously stated, I believe having an in game economy is great and should be encouraged. I just think it’s the wrong way to go about doing it.

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61

Another way of saying it is “It was pleasurable to play as it was, now it has progress gating I am not comfortable with.” Not liking a change is not necessarily being greedy, and resorting to presuming other’s motives seems a little insulting.

However I absolutely am greedy and as well as adjusting the changes to make it less tedious to play I’d like double run speed and a supergrapple and fly and chocolate coins that spit out my DVDR as in-game rewards.

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62

Omni and friends really don’t want these patch changes to happen. Let that sink in for a moment. He says he’s not worried, but has his entourage coming to defend him at every turn.

I might not even do a shop for 1.0. But what I absolutely do want is that everybody feels empowered to open a shop if they want to. Not everyone will stick with it, or even sell much. But if prices are super low, only those with the highest stock will have any chance of making a profit.

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