Mineable or Gathered Oort

This topic follows the 4D methodology that is used by many IT companies. I’m augmenting the methodology a bit by just simplifying it. It consists of 4 phases: Discovery, Design, Development, and Delivery. Currently this topic is only focused basically on the Discovery/Design phase. We are not building (development) or delivering the idea.

NOTE: This post is not at all about removing the current way to get Oort. It is to come up with another idea on how we could get Oort if the current way did not exist.

The exercise here is to provide ideas on what the new model of Oort acquisition could look like. It is not to talk about whether the current model of getting Oort is better or worse or doesn’t need to change. Please respect the humble request to not start fighting on whether this new model or the old model is better. I really believe the community can just focus on just developing this idea even if it will never be used.

Why am I doing this?

@James and the development team has publicly communicated basically that any in-game system can be discussed for a redesign. For them to decide and deliver something different, they need us to discover other ideas on what might work in the game. Once we have discovered and designed some ideas on how to get Oort differently, then a new thread can help decide if the old way is better or what might change using ideas from what we get here or not, etc. It is only after we have a viable option that we can really do a fair comparison as to if anything regarding Oort needs to change at all.

Ok, on to developing the idea:

@Havok40k and I have had more than a few chats about Oort and how we should acquire it. I’ve seen a few other comments around it in some searches I did. Many suggest mining it. I’ve also seen complaints sometimes about how hard it is to acquire unless you are high level or in groups, which kind of drives more solo players away. We also know that there is some concern from the Developers about having “too many” portals, but I haven’t seen an official post on that topic (some one can link one if they want). I haven’t posted my idea on how to manage portal numbers because I need more information and then will work on my idea. The assumption right now is that we don’t have to worry about the Portal numbers and just focus on how we get Oort.

From what I can tell, here is the original post about how the Oort resource and Portals: Design: About Oort Shards, Portals and Warps

In the post it is mentioned that you will be able to mine Oort Shards:

Obviously, due to development and other reasons, how we interact with Oort and portals is somewhat different but I provide this information to link it back to the original concept that was released by the Devs. If someone from that time wants to provide context on why development shifted away from mineable Oort please provide the details.

So the initial idea I am purposing and hoping people will help iterate on is:

  1. Mineable Oort will be located in blocks like we see any other ore/gem resource and turn into a rough stone once it is mined and still require processing to turn into a shard for portal and warp conduit use.
    – If instead we want to make Oort an asset we can gather or pick from a tree or a seed or a block like gleam or anything then I am for that. If we do that then change out the tools I list below for the appropriate ones.
    – If we want to make Oort something we can grow, then that changes a lot of stuff and I don’t have a full model design on how that might work. So I stuck with the mining idea. I suggest we focus on non-farming Oort because I feel it might be much harder to influence the Devs to change the design or we will get a VERY hard system like people see with Goo/Prestige plants. So please lets keep it simple…
  2. Mineable Oort will be available on all levels of planets and will require a certain level of hammer mastery to mine. This way level 1 characters cannot instantly get it. A character will have to make some level of progress before they can mine it.
    – It is on all planets because of the assumption that we would remove Coin from Warp Conduit needs and move to a full Oort Shard warping game model. For low level characters to get off planet they must have Oort then. So this will allow them the chance to level, acquire the right mastery level and then find Oort, turn it into Shards, and then warp.
    – Removing coin from a warp is done because it is inconsistent with how portals work. This is an attempt to drive constant game design integrity across the board with how certain components are handled and helps ease character understanding because things are consistent in look and feel.
    – I feel it should be linked to hammer mastery and NOT the forge or a special type of hammer.
  3. The amount of Oort resource distribution will be tied to the Planet T levels. With T1 having less and T6, Exo, T7/8/400 or whatever having more.
    – For the amount of resource available it should be common and not a rare resource. It can be “common” is because IF the amount of portals we have is a concern of the Developers, then we need to address that differently than using “Oort” as the limiting factor. This is done because limiting Oort adversely affects and hurts lower and especially causal players.
    – The Oort distribution should be Planet Wide and not linked to a topographical design or height or anything else. Basically it is infused throughout the planet. It should be considered almost like "the “Force” from Star Wars in that it is inherent in everything everywhere. This is also done so to ensure that we do not have people “plotting off” and restricting player access to the resource.
    – It is like any other resource in that it follows the normal resource regen process of the chunk needing to be fully regenerated before the resource is applied.
  4. Mining (or gathering of Oort if we decide it is a plant we pick off the surface, etc) has some restrictions to it:
    – It will NOT be affected by regen bombs and we will not be able to use regen bombs to speed up acquisition.
    – I purpose the Oort is harder to hit on all planets and takes additional effort to mine… This is not a 1 or 2 shot block. It can be 3 but it should not be TOO hard at all.
    – I purpose that the Oort cannot be mined using 3x3 or any forged hammer tactic. The block must be hit directly for its essence to be brought out and turned into a rough Oort stone. So if you want 500, then you are hitting 500 blocks.
    – I believe we should have concerns about how much Oort people can mine but am unsure if the Developers care. If there were concerns about people mining too much Oort then we put some type of radiation idea around it or something that limits the ability to interact with it. It would be a real life Daily design that let a person only mine X number of Oort a day per account OR Alt. The assumption being that because this is a special resource we can only get it so much.
  5. My assumption is that Oort would still stay in Meteors but have a much lower drop rate. It does make sense that if Oort is everywhere that it would then still be in a meteor but should be balanced appropriately.
    – I do suggest some type of metrics are done on current Oort usage and gathering so we can try to have a correct balance to this idea. I do not want to really hurt people that have lots of portals but want to make sure things are balanced based on what the Devs feel is right both for meteor delivery and for planet Oort acquisition.

At this point that is kind of the basic model I have on how we should have Oort. In my haste I might have missed something but I want to get the idea out there… The idea needs polish for sure but it needed to start somewhere.

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I don’t like adding it as a mineable or gatherable because people will just try to plot it off. Unless it is only available on exos but then you have an argument of ‘but exos always spawn when I’m not on’. So I don’t know how you split that baby.

However I think it would be a cool addition to add to farming. You could add it as a rare potential drop from harvesting the inorganics or a new inorganic for that matter. Check against the data of Oort that is brought in daily on average via meteors and then make the chance it drops from farming a small % of whatever the meteor hunts bring in. Make meteors hunts still the best way to do it but let people that gather/farm have a small chance of introducing more oort in to the global pool.

Just an idea. I don’t think it’s auite abuseable. I guess you could if you made huge farms but the way I imagine it, the overall % would be so small you would have to have just plots and plots of this particular crop to ‘abuse’ it. I’m not sure how many have farmed in large plot amounts but that could take hours and hours. My farm is only about 600 plots right now I think and it it a total time suck but I love it. Total carebear :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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As a mined resource, make it as common and wide spread as more common resources like silver or iron, but have it drop a less potent form than the existing raw oort ore that yields fewer shards when refined. Think of it as the equivalent of small fossils to large fossils. You could even have varied grades of richness exactly like fossils where richer mines are found on higher tier worlds. This would enable miners to maintain portals even from an early level on the lowest tier planets.

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Ok. I don’t think that’s as potentially horrid as what I was originally imagining.

Edit to say that last sentence really was a good closer. Letting low level players who mine and gather have a way to reliably establish a portal to a hub or city central would be a great idea. I’m very much on board with this now.

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This seems like an odd limitation. I’m not sure why we would limit the forged tools.

If the concern is that there would be too much, and therefore imbalance the oort economy, then say it should be rarer. Or make it grow in 1 block veins or something.

An alternative idea would be that since Oort is diffuse through everything, maybe you can extract those small amounts of Oort particulate from things. Imagine the Chrysominter but it produces Oort instead. Or imagine setting up a panning operation to pan Oort from rivers and stuff.

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How about bringing Roadrunners to T1 and T2 planets. Low level players could get Oort that way. It’s safe, easy, and doesn’t require any new mechanics or resource embedment.

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They would have to tweak the drop rates, low level RR almost never drop ore, and they can be a p.i.t.a. to hunt with stone or copper level slings.

/hug is what you need Xaldafax but the oort is good the way it is. It causes players to want to do more hunts for more reasons than one.

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I definitely support this suggestion. Meteor hunts were fun until the amount of stuff (xp and loot) we got decreased. I no longer have fun while hunting because my loot return drops so dramatically if I die.
and I die A LOT.
So I don’t like the current way we get oort. I would absolutely support a mineable oort acquisition system. I would prefer it was more accessible, but also more widely used! like the idea of using oort for warping, which since it is more temporary I think should cost significantly less, but those are details that can be balanced later. I am one of the players that is ALWAYS broke (except for more recently as I haven’t been playing much and thus buying tools or coils) so saving my coin instead of using it to warp to crazy far places coughexoplanetscough is really important to me. also I am a hoarder so I never sell anything, I use it all heh.

I think it would be fine as long as it was scattered and distributed evenly across the planet, discouraging people from plotting the more dense areas.

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I really like the suggestion of minable oort and agree with all the points you made. It being scattered everywhere seems like something that would make sense and having to directly hit it to mine is a good idea. Probably not gathering as a plant doesn’t make much sense to me. But I think this is something that should be put in as an addition to the meteors cause I dont even like hunts that much as thats the only way to get oort.

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Maybe my comment about how to handle that was missed because by increasing availability of the resource you will stop people from being able to block it off. I don’t have all the answers on how to ensure that but I think they can find ways especially if it is common. This is what I said about potential blocking off:

You mention farming, but I think if it is a true farm resource like Oats and stuff it will be too complicated because the Devs will likely make it complicated. Plus if it is a “drop” from a farming activity then we have just simply replaced Meteor use with farming. That requires another player to then have to Farm to obtain the resource. My efforts here to make it mineable is to ease the access to it and not put it behind a grind tree of any kind beyond just having to mine it. Thanks for the idea though.

I probably should have clarified the point better but it was done for a specific reason because I had no other way to counter the problem I list here: You can use a forged tool to GET to the resource, but you cannot use one to break the Oort block. The reason I did this is because people that are high level or have super forged hammers can clear out areas faster than I can blink my eyes. In my opinion that is way too powerful of a thing that will cause excessive amounts of Oort to be acquired even if there was a wide distribution to it. The person can still use the forge tool to clear out the “area” but then they will need to use like a normal tool to get it.

Other ideas on how to limit the cutting through butter miners can certainly be presented. Your Chryso idea might work too but I’d like it to be a new asset then. Maybe one that does both the point you talk about and turning it into shards. I am even fine with a special tool to gather Oort that cannot be forged.

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You are definitely right that it would simplify everything. That could work but I would be worried about the spawn rates and the amount we could obtain. Plus they would have to change the model to allow RR to be killed by Iron hammers or something because we have to make sure to give low level players access to the resource.

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I think it would be neat to introduce it across all of the ideas honestly. Let it drop off farming crops. Let it stay in meteors. Let it be mineable like you and Havok discuss. Oh and I totally forgot about the roadrunners brought to lower tiers for those who like to hunt.

Tweak drop values along the way. This allows everyone to do their favorite activity and still be able to fund at least one small portal.

Either way your premise is a great idea.

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Since I mentioned “the force” part I completely could be on board with your suggestions of it being a secondary drop across ALL activities in the game. Like if you are mining Iron you might just get an Oort drop. Harvesting Oats and bam there is a rough stone.

I am not sure if the Devs like those type of ideas because we used to get Gems and other major things off normal Monsters and that loot was removed in many ways. So I was trying to put a system behind it. Ultimately anything that moves Oort away from “only meteors” is good for me as long as lower level players and casual people can access it.

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I’m not sure about this one. I think it will just drop prices, hurting the economy again and making another resource priceless.

Shops are going to become useless eventually. If everything becomes common, then coin will lose its value at some point. Or will kill shop owner’s joy, because there is nothing of value to sell.

Part of the fun of owning a shop is to have something to draw someone in, having rare commodities. If you dont, then no one visits, and you just get a bunch of dead shops because owners dont make anything due to coin being useless and valueless.

Again I think we need diversification of roles in this game, if we as a community really want it to thrive and grow. Cities have to act like real cities or else there is no reason to visit them other than pretty aesthetics. Which people usually dont revisit often for.

Everyone should be able to do everything. But if we make everything accessible along every job role in the game, then the game may eventually die.

Farming is amazing, but maybe it should have had different crops. Exotic earth yams are already dead and priceless, because everyone is growing them now. No reason for gatherers to pick them up anymore. Meaning those plants are visible everywhere now, and useless.

Edit: this may also kill the joy of hunting for some. Gathering oort is one of the only ways to make a real profit as a hunter. After we remove that what do hunters really have to sell that will cover costs of buying new forged bows?

We will have less hunts because people will lose value in oort. Killing potentially another fun gameplay in the game.

Forgers will lose money, because hunters wont be able to afford as much. One change can effect everyone.

@james

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I completely support the idea of mining for ort.
i like to build. that’s my big draw to this game. I mine and gather to support my building addiction and i enjoy the process. hunting and combat. … . not so much. the combat system is fine just not my thing. I know for a fact there are others who have the same draw. this makes it extremely hard to maintain a portal.

I really like @Havok40k 's take on it.

You could even make a new planet type. some would be permanent with an exo variant. These planets could have a high volume of other things like corruption. the exo versions could have a higher chance to have more petrolatum and resin.
To me it would make sense to make these planets tier 3 and up or at least make the weakest grade of ort spawn very rarely on tier 1 and 2 planets in the same amount that iron dose.
any way great idea and i hope one day this happens.

                         ..... pants would be nice to ......
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How about make it only harvestable with a totem? Give it a set number of hits similar to how machines currently operate. I don’t think removing Aoe really makes sense - just have it spawn as single blocks or clusters of 2-3.

Hi. I would like to say I think you are right. Oort prices would go down. But do you not think that this would allow people to then spend their money on things they want (like materials for making marvel and mosaic etc etc) instead of things they feel they ‘need’(ie:oort)

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Depends it could lower prices or more players could open portals so the demand would increase with the supply. Who know. But I do not think making items rare is the only way to make an economy function. You just need enough items that players may not have the time or self specialize.

My preference would be to allow for another source of Oort. Minable as has been suggested makes the most sense to me.

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