Legal System

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While writing a different Topic (Link) i had the idea of a player driven “legal system”. Because our most esteemed @devs can’t be everywhere at everytime i think the players should have the possibility to “judge” players for their behavior.

That the whole thing works let us asume that there are “Town Claims” (like beacons, but without the build protection but a lot bigger [like ±200 radius] and with a Name [like “London”]). Within a City players can settle (placing a beacon) and become inhabitant of the town.

EDIT (in response to @Zouls): town foundation may take a long time and a huge amount of raw materials. they could be like our “old beacons” … like 200 in radius and 255 hight. you can only build in a town if you are inhabitant and you can only become inhabitant of the town if you 1: place a beacon 2: stay for a while (beacon need to stay for 1 week [for example])

Now let me make an example of how the Legal System could work:
Let’s say a player is griefing a town (even if there are beacons, there is most likely a lot of space not protected by beacons) and other players catch him griefing they will begin a “vote” against the griefer (like the “recommendation” system in CS:GO - there you can recommend players for good behavior [leader, teacher, fiendly]). If the griefer get’s a certain amount of “votes” (maybe we should call them reports) he will be “baned” from the area (± 200 Blocks radius for example) and he will be taged with a tital/label “Griefer” to warn other players that he is a griefer (He need to go in “Exil” to avoid more tags and abuse - this is like a “soft” ban from the game, he can still play the game but no other person will be playing with him). If he don’t get any other reports for a certain amount of time (eg. 2 weeks) he will loose the tag and some times later (eg. 2 months) he will be allowed to enter the area again he got banned from.

This example could be reused for extremely rude Players, Burglar - like mentioned in my other topic or trickster.

If a player is reported often and over a long period of time they may get a ban from the game (that’s where the @devs come in play) but i think the players themselves should care about such things when ever possible (like CS:GO Overwatch).

On the other hand, this system of “voting” can be turned around for “the good side”.
Let’s make an other example:

Let’s asume you build a town together with frinds or guild mates and you have a few really active and helpfull players you start to recommend them [leader, helpfull, trustworthy …] if they reach a certian amount of recommendations [like 50% of the towns inhabitant] they acquire the right to “short time ban” from the town or “arrest” players (like a police man) to protect the city from griefing. If more players become active, they may report the griefer too, but sometimes (eg. at night) it’s hard to protect it’s town if only a few players are online.

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There should be no need, beacons protect the land, everything outside a beacon is fair game, all i see this as would be big guilds who would claim a farm spot without putting down a beacon and then just instant banning anybody getting near it.

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i don’t think that beacons itself are sufficient protection in an open world in particular when it comes to joint building.

if we want something like towns (like forming on GORTNEN) we need something that is more dynamic than beacons. at gornen we have streets that are totally unprotected (and i’m sure nobody will use beacons for them) and we have streets (in the marked district) that are shared between two players [one on the right, one on the left side]. the shared streets work only because there is a tacit agreement that everybody has 1 block street around his marktplace.

some time ago i (and a lot of other players) helped out cleaning some mess at Ruchs capital. Even though much has been protected by player beacons, a lot of space has been destroyed and flooded with blocks. The griefers have also tried to wall in the beacons WTF

[quote=“Zouls, post:2, topic:3364”]
big guilds who would claim a farm spot without putting down a beacon and then just instant banning anybody getting near it[/quote]
if the town founding is expensive and takes a lot of time, and if it takes time to become an inhabitant of a town, where is your problem ? a guild may claim land and farm … if you get banned from that “town”/claim go along your way and search some other space to farm. the scenario you describe is a bull ranch … if you go on the ranch and kill a cow the owner will be very unhappy with you too :smiley:

EDIT: i’ve made an edit to the initial text to make the concept of a “town” more understandable. towns in my idea are “dynamic” beacons (protect stuff agains “random player”) but can be accessed by everyone who wants to join but with restrictions (like wait times). therefore you need a dynamic system to manage the players and protect town.

My opinion still stands, everything not beaconed is fair game. everything not beaconed will REGENERATE anyways, remember that. so does it really matter whether is a player or the system itself which will remove what you build?

We need two things.

  1. Taser bow slings
  2. Jail blocks (unbreakable by anyone who didn’t create them).

When we track down the miscreants, we stun them with the taser sling and build a jail cell around them. Then we let them out at our leisure. If we remember. And don’t go on holiday before we remember.

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Those could have issues. Also someone in jail could simply teleport to a new world/teleport to capital.

Potentially–but that works because they’re no longer at the griefing site. It also assumes the ability to teleport, which might not be easily garnered in the actual game. (We have it easy now, right?)

While it’s not precisely a trivial bit of coding, it would be possible to determine if the miscreant is surrounded completely by jail blocks and disable teleporting, too. (We’d want to keep them from digging out, right?)

yep thats true, but i don’t want my towns sidewalks to regenerate :smiley: that’s why i introduced “the town” idea. but in general this is right. if ■■■■ happens it will generate … but how fast ? will it generate in only a few days (earth time days) or will it take weaks ? how long will you accapt the mess around you and your city till you feel yourself forced to clean up …

@brook_monroe: good idea but this would imply that you also need to lose the port ability. not sure if this is how this should work. because you might “forget” him foreever which is the worst that could happen because it’s a ban from players and he had no process. i think this also lead to “bounty-hunt” and kidnapping

@brook_monroe, @zeathoros: that’s the reason why i ideated the “town ban” idea. if he got baned from a town, nothing bad happend. he can still move around and do his things but he can no longer enter the town and he is branded a griefer for some time. if he got banned more times the devs need to take a look how to handle this guy (time ban from game eg.)

@all: the complete idea is to give the player the possiblity to build their own societies. with their own laws, guardians (judges, majors, police man) and with the possiblity to alow settlement regions without paranoia that someone may destroy something. remember … beacons work in towns => your really private stuff is safe. but to build in the towns area (eg. sidewalks, lamps, churches) you have to wait some time, but you can place a beacon in a town (that should be blocked to remove for 1 week eg.) and start settle. the legal system will regulate actions. if you act like a troll you get baned from the town, so be nice to your neighbourhood :smile:

You know you could just make the sidewalks beaconed and then add everyone who join the town right? No need to add extra beacon types for that.

so you need an extra beacon for all shared objects ? who will waste his beacons for it ? how many beacon plots do we need for that ? how many diffrent beacons do we need for that over all ? (rethorical questions)

What if you want players to join your town in a more natural fashion without the need to reajust every shared beacon in the town ? maybe the becon owner is in vaction for 6 months ? who can take care of this ? that are all things i’m sure can’t be managed with beacons “only”.

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If i remember correctly the plan is that you can have different permission tied to the same beacon

See above :slight_smile:

I really don’t think that having beacon where everybody automatichally just join when they settle in the area would work as protection at all.

It was in the plans to allow other people to add people to your beacon last i checked

Beacons will most likely be mainly ‘‘you cant build here’’ you make it sound like beacons has to be physical barriers for everybody. they mentioned that the beacons will be able to be plotted square by square. but all you are mentioning, with infrastructure is one of the many reasons why i dont think beacons should disappear, because if they do disappear i dont think anybody would bother making roads.

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for more beacon info check:

Also it seems that the amount of beacons isn’t really restricted but more the amount of claimable zones.

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as in this post mentioned all have the same abilities for the shared space and i’m sure at the moment only @devs magic can change something or cause something like that (at least because it’s much bigger than what a player could claim at the moment). this exaple shows how i could imagine a town. a guild or a player can place a town block and “shared” space appears. everyone that settles in this space (in this example the free space between the shared) becomes member of the town (after a week in example).

forther more i found an other post which said you need to remove and add new beacons … now neasted beacons. if i understand the following conversation correct i think you cant add diffrent permissions to ONE beacon but you can add a LOT of beacons with diffrent permissions.

that’s why i said we need wait times (cool-down times) to build in the shared space. and beacons should be blocked for some time (so noone can set beacons => spam blocks and remove beacons asap)

that’s something i realy don’t like. i have a good example that happend some years ago (guild wars 1). i was leader of a guild (100 member, 80% daily activity … it was a good guild :’( ) and some of my officers (that i’ve trusted) added accidentaly an other officed to the guild while i was in vacation (bacause both where officers he can’t remove the rights he gave by accident) … long story short … as i returned from vacation my guild has been destroyed from the one officer that had been accidentaly nominate because he scammed and kicked all other members …

if there will every be the possibility that some of my “friends” adds other players to my beacons i won’t give anyone any permission for my beacons beacuse ■■■■ happens by accident all the times …

nope, not my intension … it should be a time restriction (or maybe right restriction - eg. you need the town right “member” to build in the shared space) for new players to build in the shared zone (but they can join and participate in social live) and a legal zone for inhabitants to care for their own.

the amount of beacons is in fact restricted … and that’s for reasons

EDIT: Or did you mean that 10 player can build a big beacon ? but that is in fact really un-handy if everyone owns a few chunks of the shared space or if someone has to sacrifice all his claim for shared space …

I think guild beacons will probably accomplish what you suggest: Big beacons that are accessible/alterable by every guild member and allow personal beacons inside them (+probably some other guild gimmicks)

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I think the thought was that 3 ranks existed:

  • Owner can add new managers and builders
  • Manager can add new builders
  • Builders

For the other comments
Ah Yeah i think i see what you are going at now that seems like an ok idea. The collected amount of town claims should be based on the amount of people in the town and should fall as people use their beacon claims. (To avoid people using the town/guild claims as a way to expand claim area)

So basically the towns amount of claimable area is x+zy
Where x the inhabitants non used claims
Z is the amount of players and
Y is a number of extra claims awarded to a town per player

I could understand this approach, but i think this is the source of a lot of problems if you build hirachies for ownership. if you start to do such a thing you are much closer to a right management which is much more flexible.

totally agree with this

good idea but this would imply that you also need to lose the port ability. not sure if this is how this should work. because you might “forget” him foreever which is the worst that could happen because it’s a ban from players and he had no process. i think this also lead to “bounty-hunt” and kidnapping

There was one correspondent on the boards (once upon a time) who told us that his only goal in the game was to kill us and take our stuff. Punishments must act as a deterrent, since we can’t possibly engage in rehabilitation.

The player would of course be able to contact GMs to be released.

Would you prefer we follow the old Native American tribal tradition (I don’t recall which tribe it was, and for all I know this is apocryphal) of tossing the miscreant into a pit with an enraged Oortian bear-analogue?

No matter what, no matter what you freaking say. forceful jailing which traps the player for as long as you want, is a BAD and ABUSEABLE idea. how can it be that when i mention traps in beacons people go nuts but when you mention unescapeable prisons you are like ‘‘mhmm good idea’’ I dont think the game needs an insane justice system for each seperate town, each town should be able to ban people from their beacons, that i can agree with, after all its your beacon and you are free to choose, but some crazy long term consequences from playermade ban decisions really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. just my opinion though.

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i agree mostly with you. most people like revange and if you stuff gets destroyed you may like to do this. bit you are totally right that it’s abuseable and for fairnes, gameplay and 100 other reasons a bad idea.

player made bans in this example meant EXILE from the town. not from the game!

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